An uncapper is nice, but does not generate revenue, just saves you time. I would buy a GOOD electric knife, insurance on your other hand, and save the money to get a better uncapper. Do it right the first time.

Crazy Roland

 

A chain uncapper, fed into a cappings spinner, drained into a heated, water jacketed, settling tank (sump) works rather well, although the cappings tend to become drenched in honey all too soon. I have all Maxant, but have never incorporated my chain uncapper (a mentor did).

'Hot knife gets really old with 60-75 hives and 2-300 supers. Cappings get drenched, all the same.

Nice concept, though...If I were building UP, I might dust the uncapper off...

 

I think your in line for a silver queen, my first thought was a chain uncapper.

 

Get the Silver queen. It will pay off...

 

Learn how to use an uncapping plane will be a heck of a lot cheaper and just about as fast as a chain uncapper. Maxant sells them and it's what I use.

In 1992 we had 110+ hives and I extracted 28,000+ pounds using a uncapping plane and a ten frame radial.

 

I'm not commercial, but am running about 60 colonies now and hope to get to about 100 within a year.
I welcome any comments.

I grew up working in our families 5,000 hive operation in an extracting room manned by 3 good people, 2 of them with a Master uncapping knife in hand and the third running 2 or 3 50 frame radial extractors. Cappings were uncapped directly into a modified extractor with a bottom in it and perforated holes around the outside of the reel. We typically extracted about 2 drums (1,300 lbs.) per hour if the boxes were full. Hard work? Yes, but imminently doable. Handling a hot uncapping knife is a bit of a lost art form. Quiet, neat, no broken frames, no missed cappings, no worries about brood getting uncapped, no adjustments or machinery to break down and ahh the aroma.

 

This may do a good job for you if you not going over a 100 hive or so.

http://youtu.be/gL7Eoo5OIrU

looks like a
Kelley's Electric Vibrating Knife with a Maxant capping spinner

http://www.pacificcrestapiaries.com/id33.html

WAX AND HONEY DROPS DOWN INTO WAX MELTER


BEE HAPPY Jim 134

 

This may do a good job for you if you not going over a 100 hive or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiLQeSs-9Zg



BEE HAPPY Jim 134

 

Jim
I have one of those and they are ok for a limited production only. Use partially for 2 years. I have it for sale for 1/2 the original price.

 

Thanks for the valuable feedback.

So, can I correctly interpreted the feedback as a vote of lack of confidence in the Maxant chain uncapper? The videos that I've seen make a good impression, and its priced well below the silver queen unit. The silver queen unit seems like a great machine but, well above my price range. If my interpretation is correct, then would someone care to provide specific feedback on why the Maxant is not recommended?

 

why the Maxant is not recommended?

oh it will do the trick for you,
they are just a little cumbersome, loud, messy, but quick and does a good job.

 

I really wish you folks could have seen a well run hand uncapping honey house in action. I haven't found anything more than a few lame videos demonstrating hand uncapping to the tune of well over a minute per frame when a skilled person with properly heated knife can actually do a frame in about 20 seconds INCLUDING the top and bottom bar, something no uncapping machine is capable of doing.
Yes, we eventually made the switchover to an uncapping machine. Primarily because an unskilled worker can be quickly trained to do the job at 3 times the speed. Make no mistake about it, though. No machine can do the job as well or as neatly as it can be done by hand.
Sorry if I come off as an old curmudgeon espousing the old ways but as I said, I guess you just need to see and experience it in action to fully understand.
A silver queen? If that's your price range, then that's a horse of a different color. It will do around a box per minute and is a machine fully capable of doing the job for several thousand hives and is capable of extracting the honey from a hundred hives in about a day. If you are thinking of putting one in then bear in mind that it can uncap at least as fast as 2, 50 frame radials can extract. We ran 4, 50's behind ours for quite a few years.

 

Jim,

I do really appreciate your input. Some of the constraints I'm facing is that I'm a one man operation. I do not plan to bring in extra help, so I'm looking for a solution with this constraint in mind. Regarding the silver queen, I realize that not only is it way beyond my current and projected needs, it is outside of my budget. If I could do 20 seconds per frame, that is something I would consider. However, everyone I've seen using a hot knife is no faster than I am with a good cold knife. In fact, I invited a 40 year veteran beekeeper to my facility to extract where we did side-by-side uncapping. He used his favorite hot knife and I used a cold knife. I was about 30% faster than he was, but still not fast enough for my liking.

 

Jim it sounds like a great project for you.
David

 

I know a guy running 600 hives who hired a few students and gave them scratching forks... work well as long as he had the students to work

 

Still using the scratchers to this day.. have a dakota guiness uncapper but it beats the comb and is way too **** loud. Don't see the problems with the scrathing forks to be honest

 

What about Kelly's electric vibrating knife. Would that work for you? Maybe someone on here has some experience with one.

 

What about Kelly's electric vibrating knife.

That's what Jim_134 posted above. I'd like to hear more from others who have used such a system.

 

use an uncapping plane and put your money into handling cappings as this will be your bottleneck.

 

No personal experience, but I'd have to say that the reviews on the uncapping planes are all over the map. Many claim to have used it once or twice and given up. What brand plane are you using?

 

I can support Mr. Lyon. The modern uncapping knife is a joke compared to what was available in the 60's. I can remember one that had 2 heat ranges, and a "nesting" pad. When on the pad, it was on simmer, but when you picked it up, it was all business. Yes, it did alot better job than the uncapping machine, but was harder on the individual.

Crazy Roland

 

compared to what was available in the 60's.

So nobody is making good quality knifes these days?

 

The chain upcapper I saw in action was very functional. The gentleman had a very nice setup (direct mounted over a cappings spinner), and ran it that way for years.

If I were to ever get back up to around 100 hives, mine would probably go into the loop. As soon as the basket got an initial layer of cappings, the spinner would start removing many of the fine wax particles which you were concerned about. ( I see that hand uncapping into the spinner).

'Just didn't want my comments to be misconstrued as negative. I've almost always enjoyed hand upcapping. My chain uncapper came as part of a package deal, and I just never got large enough to want or need to use it. It would be one more piece of equipment to maintain, clean and sterilize each year. I should probably just sell mine, as I have no plans to ever get that big again.

 

I am also looking for uncapping for 100 hives and have been looking for the Maxant Uncapper-Spinner combo unit. You can see it on this page:

http://www.maxantindustries.com/uncapping.html

It sounds like what Colobee has been talking about. The Silver Queen is about the same price, but then you still need an auger or something for the capping and a spinner to keep up.

I know I could uncap by hand, but I work another full-time job, so my time is a very limited resource.

 

I work another full-time job, so my time is a very limited resource.

Me too. I think Jim Lyon's perspective is that a good hot knife is as fast (possibly faster) than some types of automation, with much less equipment to deal with. I'm just not sure I could ever get that good at hand uncapping.... Seems to take for ever right now. Perhaps Jim will invite me to SD for the summer to learn the craft of hand uncapping?? I could see him starting me out with a set of chop sticks trying to catch bees by their wings, then move me to polishing the extractors (wax on, wax off) Just kidding Jim.

Regarding prices, I think the Silver Queen is quite a bit more than the basic Maxant chain uncapper with spinner. The uncapper is about $2400 and the Junior Capping Spinner is about $1500. So, for about $3900 you could get the very basic system. Some sort of tanks to hold cappings and uncapped frames would be very helpful too. The Silver Queen alone is $6150, then you would need a heat source, capping spinner, plus other tanks, etc., which would likely drive it up near the $10k mark pretty quickly.

 

astrobee
sorry for not getting back to you quicker. my uncapping plane is over 20yrs old and made in canada. I suspect that they are all made by one or two companies. they do not hurt your wrist like a knife does. we have used a cowan uncapper, plane, knife and kellys vibrating knife. I have seen operators in fla that uncapped with the kelly unit go faster than the uncapper. to get full benifit from an uncapper you need at least two people. with an uncapper you need at least twice as much work space.we were running 1200 hives with the uncapper. now we run about 200 hives and a plane or kelly unit works for us now. good luck

 

I love my Maxant uncapper. I bought it a couple years ago. it is an older model with the non adjustable pillow blocks but it does an awesome job for my one man 100 hive operation. i dont think i would ever go back to a hot knife again although I have it. I would recommend it.

 

I love my Maxant uncapper.

How do you manage the cappings?

 

Astro;

I am just south of you and run 200 hives. I have had a Maxant chain uncapper for 15+ years and it works fine. I have 4 large 'totes' that I put a wooden frame in the bottom of (2" high_ and set hardware cloth over that. I put a honey gate on one end of the tote. I uncap half a day into the tote and switch it out. The cappings drain just fine in the tote and I set it up on 2 upended hive bodies and let it drain into a 5 gallon bucket. The new Maxants have adjustable pillow blocks so you can adjust the cut, unlike my old one. It is just the right height that you can use a scratching fork to clean up what the uncapper misses or use the fork for partially capped frames. The problem with electric knives and planes is they will soon kill your forearm and hand and if you don't keep them running they will scorch honey and the chain uncapper and fork will never scorch honey. I get a premium for my honey and I don't want high heat anywhere near it. I feed a 24 frame and a 36 frame extractor with the uncapper and the extractors are the bottleneck, not the uncapper. For a one man operation like me the uncapper is some of the best money I ever spent. I just finished up last night using it for about 2 weeks straight at night with no problems. Send me a private note if you want to talk.

 

Yes, Astrobee, the knives of today are aimed at the hobby market, not the commercial market. The old knives, when you picked it off the cradle, had about 2-3 time the heat of the modern knives, but simmered as soon as you put htem down. From memory, less than 2 seconds a side where needed, with minimal effort on white comb. I believe htey are no longer made because the market disappeared with the invention of hte uncapper.

Crazy ROland

 

Interesting insight that may explain a lot as I don't have any experience with what is currently being sold. I have a box full of old uncapping knives. Perhaps they are more valuable than I realize. Yes, 2 seconds a side. I wanted to say that but thought it sounded a bit too much like an exaggeration so I fudged a bit. We never used a cradle but always laid a nice little pile of wet cappings off to the side that you put the blade in when you laid the knife down so that it wouldn't overheat on you as you needed them adjusted hot enough for continuous use. I really miss the clean bottom bars we had in the days of hand uncapping, it made for easier frame spacing the following year.

 

I use the PIERCE Speed King uncapping knife and am very satisfied with it.

 

Hey Jim, just for grins, is there a wattage rating still visible on one of the old knives? Be careful , it may be in roman Numerals.

Crazy Roland

 

My skills at uncapping leave much to be desired. My goal is the 200 hive mark. I'm not trying to come off as anywhere close to an expert. I purchased the sideliner slit uncapper.

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/The-Sideliner-Uncapper/productinfo/795/

It works well for me. I don't have to deal with a great deal of capping wax. I don't know what you guys will think of it. There is a video showing how it works and based on my experience the video is accurate.

 

An idea to consider is getting a used silver queen and having it rebuilt. I like them because they can be loaded and running while you are moving supers etc. Furthermore you only have to lift the frames once and are not constantly handling the frames. Chain uncappers do not work well on old or cold honey. Of course I am biased because I can always use the wax.

 

An idea to consider is getting a used silver queen and having it rebuilt.

Nice idea, but I've never seen a used one come available anywhere close to where I live. Perhaps closer to large honey producing areas, but buying site unseen and having it shipped could be more than some are willing to gamble.

Didn't realize that chain uncappers don't work on cold honey or old comb. I generally don't deal with "cold" honey as most of mine is done before October, when its still warm outside.