I'm not really sure where to pose this question so I guess I'll pose it in the bee forum area. Anyway, I am racking my brain on ways to grow my hive count by 15-25 hives with none of my own capital invested. what I've come up with may be a strench, but I'm kicking around the idea of trying to use a CSA (community supported agriculture) site to expand my hive count with no capital. The idea I think would be that each 'share' would be $325 for a 3 year period and the buyer gets the honey from 1 hive with a guarantee of 110 lbs (20 1st year, 50 2nd year, and 40 the last year). It would of course put some of the risk on me, but would get rid of the need to spend a lot of my own money up front and market the honey. The buyer would get a great price, but the downside is that I don't know a lot of people who need 50-100 lbs of honey a year. Anyone know of anything similar to this or think it would work? Any feedback would be appreciated.
scoots40
that is a lot of honey for either one person or one family.
if you were selling stock I would suggest you reduce the par value per share... which would first off expand the breadth of the market (i.e. the sheer number of people that can afford the stated price). I would also reduce the time span to one year only. three years is much too long a planning horizon for most folks to consider.
price/lb is a bit pricey from my calculation (and location)... it may well represent what folks in your area pay.
if you were selling stock I would suggest you reduce the par value per share... which would first off expand the breadth of the market (i.e. the sheer number of people that can afford the stated price). I would also reduce the time span to one year only. three years is much too long a planning horizon for most folks to consider.
price/lb is a bit pricey from my calculation (and location)... it may well represent what folks in your area pay.
the csa model (as it is run round these parts) are that the customer buys into the operation...for better or for worse. this means that they take on some of the risk (crop failure) as well as the goodies (better price/lb). this risk is inherent in the system...if you guarantee a specific harvest, it takes the risk out of the equation for the consumer..which really defeats the purpose of a csa.
if you can't afford to get all these hives off the ground with your own capital, can you really afford to "guarantee" the crop? if your bees die or if you have a bad year, will you simply buy honey for them? do you have enough experience that it is reasonable for someone to invest their money? are you currently selling honey? what are you getting per lb?
worst case: you get a bunch of customers to buy in. bad conditions/disease outbreak/etc in your area. you've now put $325 of someone elses money into these hives, price of honey goes up, and you need to buy honey for these customers. ...can you afford to do this? ..if so, imho, you'd be better served to spend that money upfront and own the hives outright..then sell the honey after you have produced it.
not wanting to work with one's own capital is "the american way", but personally, i think it's better to borrow from a bank (or low interest credit card) than from your customers.
deknow
if you can't afford to get all these hives off the ground with your own capital, can you really afford to "guarantee" the crop? if your bees die or if you have a bad year, will you simply buy honey for them? do you have enough experience that it is reasonable for someone to invest their money? are you currently selling honey? what are you getting per lb?
worst case: you get a bunch of customers to buy in. bad conditions/disease outbreak/etc in your area. you've now put $325 of someone elses money into these hives, price of honey goes up, and you need to buy honey for these customers. ...can you afford to do this? ..if so, imho, you'd be better served to spend that money upfront and own the hives outright..then sell the honey after you have produced it.
not wanting to work with one's own capital is "the american way", but personally, i think it's better to borrow from a bank (or low interest credit card) than from your customers.
deknow
I belong to a CSA (vegetables mostly) both in the summer and in the winter. The price of the product I get is hardly a bargain - I'd call it "just below" what I'd pay from Whole Foods or other organic grocery store. The difference is I know where the food is coming from and I am supporting local agriculture with my money.
If I were you I'd think about selling a few more less expensive shared (say $175 - $225 each) and promise less honey (so the honey you are providing works out to be more like $6 or $7/lb - You want it to be just below what a person would be buying your honey for retail from a farmer's market or specialty store. In my case that price is $7.50/lb in glass paragon jars with labels). That would bring your promise down to about one case per share per year. I would also include a "field day" of some sort where one afternoon each summer you invite your CSA members to the apiary for a small demonstration or something like that. (more added value). Maybe instead of allowing people in your apiary you bring an observation hive and give a demonstration/talk on bees at the first honey pick-up.
CSA's are a great way to get people involved and for farmers to raise money at times when the crops are not coming in. They're not risk-free loans, though - they're guarantees of product. You have to be prepared to come up with your own honey from your non CSA hives or buy from a reputable source.
If I were you I'd think about selling a few more less expensive shared (say $175 - $225 each) and promise less honey (so the honey you are providing works out to be more like $6 or $7/lb - You want it to be just below what a person would be buying your honey for retail from a farmer's market or specialty store. In my case that price is $7.50/lb in glass paragon jars with labels). That would bring your promise down to about one case per share per year. I would also include a "field day" of some sort where one afternoon each summer you invite your CSA members to the apiary for a small demonstration or something like that. (more added value). Maybe instead of allowing people in your apiary you bring an observation hive and give a demonstration/talk on bees at the first honey pick-up.
CSA's are a great way to get people involved and for farmers to raise money at times when the crops are not coming in. They're not risk-free loans, though - they're guarantees of product. You have to be prepared to come up with your own honey from your non CSA hives or buy from a reputable source.
Are these CSA's more or less like a cooperative, where the owners share ownership and can receive patronage dividends? These dividends are based upon what amount of purchases the member makes, so the 'big users' receive the larger reward. The funds can be placed in account to be taken out upon death or other means of leaving the cooperative. I am unfamiliar with CSA's but grew up in farm country, where farmer's cooperatives are common place.
I think deknow is pretty much on the mark. The problem will come up if you have a die out(s) the first year and they don't make honey. Then you would have to buy honey and then buy bees so they can produce the next year. It could get expensive.
How many hives do you have right now. If you have 5 strong hives you can make 15 out of them in the spring. (3 frame nucs) Don't expect a honey crop that year, but if you feed well in the spring and have good pollen and nectar flows by years end they should be really good strong hives. The next year if you produce 110 lbs per hive and sell retail at 5 bucks per pound thats 550 per hive which can then be put back into your operation. Not a bad way to go and you are beholding to no one except the Bee Gods.
How many hives do you have right now. If you have 5 strong hives you can make 15 out of them in the spring. (3 frame nucs) Don't expect a honey crop that year, but if you feed well in the spring and have good pollen and nectar flows by years end they should be really good strong hives. The next year if you produce 110 lbs per hive and sell retail at 5 bucks per pound thats 550 per hive which can then be put back into your operation. Not a bad way to go and you are beholding to no one except the Bee Gods.
How are you going to get a web-site up and running without capital? The site itself is cheap, but getting a rating so people can find it on google takes a lot of work and often money.
I really like the idea of a CSA, I have even visited a sucessful one, but those are few and far between. I don't see one working for honey products alone, but maybe you can get in touch with an operational csa and have the honey added to their csa program.
Or just rent out hives for a season? Or you could sell the hives and maintain them in exchange for 20% of the product. Send the rentor/owner a picture of the hive and information on the bees (breed etc) At the end of the season they get their share of honey from their own hive. I know people who have done simular things with maple trees and maple syrup.
I really like the idea of a CSA, I have even visited a sucessful one, but those are few and far between. I don't see one working for honey products alone, but maybe you can get in touch with an operational csa and have the honey added to their csa program.
Or just rent out hives for a season? Or you could sell the hives and maintain them in exchange for 20% of the product. Send the rentor/owner a picture of the hive and information on the bees (breed etc) At the end of the season they get their share of honey from their own hive. I know people who have done simular things with maple trees and maple syrup.
Csa
I am an organic grower with a CSA. I also keep bees. What seems to be the trend around here is that I grow vegetables and then offer a fruit share or a meat share. I don't grow the other items so I partner with a reputable producer. The customer has one main farm connection and gets a chance to purchase many products. If you partnered with a CSA they could pre-sell your honey in small quantities and prepay you. The meat, cheese, fruit, and some flower producers are doing this with most the CSA's in our area. A CSA of 100 members would probably purchase 50-100 pints in a season if it were offered twice a season. This is not a huge amount of money but if you could do 3-4 CSA's it might help. Honey is an easier product to distribute because it does not take extra refrigeration. You might try keeping hives on the farms that have the CSA as an added connection that is more likely to encourage CSA members to buy the honey. Localharvest.org is a great site to find CSA's in your area.
I am an organic grower with a CSA. I also keep bees. What seems to be the trend around here is that I grow vegetables and then offer a fruit share or a meat share. I don't grow the other items so I partner with a reputable producer. The customer has one main farm connection and gets a chance to purchase many products. If you partnered with a CSA they could pre-sell your honey in small quantities and prepay you. The meat, cheese, fruit, and some flower producers are doing this with most the CSA's in our area. A CSA of 100 members would probably purchase 50-100 pints in a season if it were offered twice a season. This is not a huge amount of money but if you could do 3-4 CSA's it might help. Honey is an easier product to distribute because it does not take extra refrigeration. You might try keeping hives on the farms that have the CSA as an added connection that is more likely to encourage CSA members to buy the honey. Localharvest.org is a great site to find CSA's in your area.
I take it the actual goal here is to increase a hive count (with no or very little money invested personally), and not to create a CSA. The CSA is just one means of increasing your hive count inexpensively. Right?
If that's the case, consider splitting agressively for a couple years. Sure, expanding on your own will take you longer, and you'll still have to buy woodenware and other equipment, but you won't have to deal with the organizational work that comes with a CSA (or some other arrangement).
Doing cut-outs would be another method of getting "cheap" bees, as would swarm collection.
If that's the case, consider splitting agressively for a couple years. Sure, expanding on your own will take you longer, and you'll still have to buy woodenware and other equipment, but you won't have to deal with the organizational work that comes with a CSA (or some other arrangement).
Doing cut-outs would be another method of getting "cheap" bees, as would swarm collection.
You would be more successful if you offer product diversity. Rather than just a honey CSA, I would also offer spun honey (plain, cinnamon, chocolate, etc.), cut honeycomb, chunk honey, beeswax/honey lip balm, scented and unscented beeswax candles, a couple 1 oz beeswax bars, herbal infused honey, honeystix, pieces of honeycomb dipped in dark chocolate and drizzled with rum and sprinkled with cinnamon & nutmeg, etc. Thus you can offer a variety of different priced CSA levels versus amount of product and perhaps get customers who may not want a couple hundred pounds of just honey.
In addition to your honey CSA, how about setting up your own online store on Local Harvest as someone else mentioned. I highly recommend selling or at a minimum listing your business on Local Harvest (LH). Listings are free as are creating an online store which can be your website. LH takes a commision out of your sales to cover their end. Get creative with your keywords and your store can be numero 1 on the search engines.
This year is now my fourth year selling my honey and other honey products on Local Harvest, http://www.localharvest.org/store/M14434. Every so often I come up with a new product line as time and my permanently damaged knee from my day job allow. I have greatly increased my customer base since starting up my LH store and have greatly increased my customer base and revenue, plus many, many repeat customers. I made $850.00 in sales last month alone through my LH store, plus just over $1,000.00 in local sales.
In addition to your honey CSA, how about setting up your own online store on Local Harvest as someone else mentioned. I highly recommend selling or at a minimum listing your business on Local Harvest (LH). Listings are free as are creating an online store which can be your website. LH takes a commision out of your sales to cover their end. Get creative with your keywords and your store can be numero 1 on the search engines.
This year is now my fourth year selling my honey and other honey products on Local Harvest, http://www.localharvest.org/store/M14434. Every so often I come up with a new product line as time and my permanently damaged knee from my day job allow. I have greatly increased my customer base since starting up my LH store and have greatly increased my customer base and revenue, plus many, many repeat customers. I made $850.00 in sales last month alone through my LH store, plus just over $1,000.00 in local sales.
Thanks for all the replies, I can see that this model may not be a good one or feasible, but I'm not ready to give up completely... Tecumseh- I would agree the price is high and honey amount high for one person/family. In addition the timelime is less than ideal. Here is the reason for the 3 years vice 1 year: I believe the way it would be worked would be like a 'con' and injustice to the buyer if it was offered to the buyer for just one year and here is why: If I start on bare foundation and with a package or nuc (most probable) I don't think much honey would be expected at all the first year. This year I did just that (started with 8 packages) two of which died right away, but the end result was I now have 10 2 story hives who produced 25-30 lbs this first year. I feel like I squeezed alot out of them and was very lucky. This year was also an exceptional one around here and I think the norm is 0-20 lbs the first year on bare foundation to get to 2 stories. As for the price of $325 for a 110lb guarantee ($2.95/lb) that's low for around here. I averaged 3.75-5.50/lb. I definately have to look into a cheaper price for less honey though...
Scoots,
I don't think you can get anything for nothing. I know you don't want to invest "capital," but what Would you be investing if you went with a CSA? What would that equate to in capital / what's the cost?
Some friends wanted to start a CSA together and took out a loan on some land together. Within 2 years, half of the team packed up and moved out of state (overnight) and another family experienced a divorce. What almost became a CSA landed in the hands of a single-mother to be with different new ideas for the land. Thankfully, she wasn't stuck running a CSA.
Not that you can't do it. My point is that there is a cost be it financially or otherwise. 25 hives isn't so much that you shouldn't be able to get there with some timely splits and some gradual buildup of supplies. (My first 7 years were done by extracting every week since I didn't have spare frames or supers. I now have well over 25 hives who all paid for themselves.) The most powerful tool you might find in your toolbox is your beekeeping budget.
I don't think you can get anything for nothing. I know you don't want to invest "capital," but what Would you be investing if you went with a CSA? What would that equate to in capital / what's the cost?
Some friends wanted to start a CSA together and took out a loan on some land together. Within 2 years, half of the team packed up and moved out of state (overnight) and another family experienced a divorce. What almost became a CSA landed in the hands of a single-mother to be with different new ideas for the land. Thankfully, she wasn't stuck running a CSA.
Not that you can't do it. My point is that there is a cost be it financially or otherwise. 25 hives isn't so much that you shouldn't be able to get there with some timely splits and some gradual buildup of supplies. (My first 7 years were done by extracting every week since I didn't have spare frames or supers. I now have well over 25 hives who all paid for themselves.) The most powerful tool you might find in your toolbox is your beekeeping budget.
Deknow,
I believe the CSA model around here may be a little different. One of the guys at work bought a share this year and this is how it played out. You buy at a set price to receive a set amount. The difference is that you get different produce through out the year based on what is grown. This model is not the one that I want to go with in that I want to go to the one more like yours, with the change of a guaranteed amount (well under what I believe the hive should/could produce). As for the risk-I would assume MOST of the risk with the gain of the equipment at the end, some honey (hopefully) on the 3rd year, and not having to transport, store, find customers for the honey.
Can you really afford to "guarantee" the crop? I believe so I have 10 2 story hives currently with plans to split. Can use the honey/bees from these if case of failure. And in worse case scenario can buy honey from some other local beekeepers at $1.66/lb. I have the money to buy more hives on my own, just would rather not use it if possible.
if your bees die or if you have a bad year, will you simply buy honey for them? I would replace the bees with some of my own, and use my own honey to at least give the guarantee.
do you have enough experience that it is reasonable for someone to invest their money? This is questionable I guess. I am a fast learner (my 2 mentors have 60 years combined experience and have their own large commercial business, and hives at home (hobby hives). But that doesn't really say much for my own experience.are you currently selling honey? what are you getting per lb? Yes, at 3.75-5.50ish per lb.
I believe the CSA model around here may be a little different. One of the guys at work bought a share this year and this is how it played out. You buy at a set price to receive a set amount. The difference is that you get different produce through out the year based on what is grown. This model is not the one that I want to go with in that I want to go to the one more like yours, with the change of a guaranteed amount (well under what I believe the hive should/could produce). As for the risk-I would assume MOST of the risk with the gain of the equipment at the end, some honey (hopefully) on the 3rd year, and not having to transport, store, find customers for the honey.
Can you really afford to "guarantee" the crop? I believe so I have 10 2 story hives currently with plans to split. Can use the honey/bees from these if case of failure. And in worse case scenario can buy honey from some other local beekeepers at $1.66/lb. I have the money to buy more hives on my own, just would rather not use it if possible.
if your bees die or if you have a bad year, will you simply buy honey for them? I would replace the bees with some of my own, and use my own honey to at least give the guarantee.
do you have enough experience that it is reasonable for someone to invest their money? This is questionable I guess. I am a fast learner (my 2 mentors have 60 years combined experience and have their own large commercial business, and hives at home (hobby hives). But that doesn't really say much for my own experience.are you currently selling honey? what are you getting per lb? Yes, at 3.75-5.50ish per lb.
I don't believe I am trying to get something for nothing. There would be my time to tend the bees, put the hives together, extract, take on the risk of losses etc. Here is what I don't want to do if at all possible- split all of my hives for fast buildup at the cost of no honey for 1 or two years and costs to build. I also don't want to tote honey around and store if possible. I sold out quickly (not that I sold a whole lot by most standards) but it seems like more work than would be needed I think. I do love the idea of showing the customer the hive and I will definately check out localharvest.org.
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