[Litsinger]

... he didn't really say How to get these bees.

In these circles there is a big emphasis placed on deploying feral stock as the base for selection - particularly that of the native AMM subspecies.

 

[Litsinger]

Does anyone have any reading on the 'Stores Secure' concept?

Have a look for Torben Schiffer here on the pages of Beesource.

 

[Litsinger]

Perhaps the great die-off of feral colonies with the arrival of Varroa was just the elimination of AMM type bees...

I am aware of bees with whole DNA reads of upwards of 80% AMM in Eastern Kentucky. Dr. Harpur's genetic work is finding similar results in very remote areas - so there is still at least some still out there here in the US.

 

[Litsinger]

The bees for Seeley's experiment in Ithaca were commercial Italian bees, not special in any way as far as I can tell.

Note one of the study contributors - Michael Smith. He's the lead researcher for the recent study we just discussed about entrance preference with the 'Infinity Nests'.

Also interesting to see that Dr. Steven Martin is the paper's editor - the same guy assisting Steve Riley with his work in the UK.

The study that has proven the most helpful to me in my TF efforts has been another Seeley work:

Life-history traits of wild honey bee colonies living in forests around Ithaca, NY, USA - Apidologie

Wild honey bee colonies—both truly wild (in trees and buildings) and simulated wild (in small hives)—were studied to determine their life-history traits, to see if these traits have changed now that these colonies are infested with Varroa destructor. Most colonies (97%) survive summers, but only...

link.springer.com

Specific to my own program, I have found that this metric is very helpful to tracking long-term survival:

'Colonies with mite-drop counts below 30 mites/48 h had nearly zero mortality, but colonies with mite-drop counts above 30 mites/48 h suffered higher mortality, reaching 100% when count was 90+ mites/48 h.'

So at least with this feral cohort, resistance proved to be a more reliable predictor of success than tolerance.

 

[Litsinger]

Additive - in other words.

Tom Glenn was espousing this point over 20 years ago now - he's proved quite prescient on a good many things regarding resistance breeding:

Tom Glenn has a good write-up on honey bee breeding and describes VSH as an 'additive trait':

An additive trait is controlled by neither dominant or recessive genes. SMR/VSH is probably determined by more than one gene. So the more of these genes are present, the more of the trait will be expressed. This is lucky for us because by starting with queens inbred for the trait, a breeder can easily import the trait into his stock at the 50% level. So if we are careful, we can keep the good bees we have but add this SMR/VSH trait to them. As time goes on and more drones in the population carry the trait, resistance should become more common in our bees and in feral colonies. The return of the feral bees will be a good indicator of the bees gaining resistance.

 

[Litsinger]

So resistance, to the extent it exists, will follow a Gaussian ("normal") distribution.

Except in honey bees we have the highest rate of recombination of any animal - when subjected to Natural Selection, heterozygosity and recombination work to increase the frequency of the alleles suitable to survival - thus an 'additive' accumulation of the appropriate genes.

This is why Tom noted that the resurgence of feral bees would be our 'tell' that Natural Selection is bringing the appropriate alleles forward.

 

[Litsinger]

This simple, stupid test needs to be done.
Until then - there is nothing to argue about and nothing to preach about.

That's the nut, isn't it?

Part of the challenge is being willing to start with stock that has already gotten a bit down the road or to utilize soft bond to separate the proverbial wheat from the chaff.

 

[Litsinger]

To do Bond in what looks like a scientific way,

Soft Bond has been promoted by Dr. Kefuss and is currently being utilized by Randy Oliver to good effect - but requires establishing appropriate treatment thresholds rather than treating prophylactically:

A shift in message? The case for IPM instead of bond as...

This post is triggered by a highly respected TF advocate recently posting advice to a new BYBK (backyard Beekeeper) Planing on getting 2 hives and had a question of what to do if his hive started having mite problems “ let them fail and start over the next year” this is compounding on all the...

www.beesource.com

 

[Litsinger]

In AR they were maintained in TF setting with good results.
In my setting they all died out after 3 years.

A possibility - especially given the three year timeline:

If you haven't already, the talk below by Dr. Stephen Martin is well worth the investment. Near the end he outlines discussions he had with Dr. Spivak and their combined observations that VSH colonies in a high mite load environment can fail due to an external mite pressure that causes them to uncap too much brood and fail to effectively turn-over...

 

[Litsinger]

... unsustainable pattern.

Have you tried a 100% robbing screen group to minimize the amount of non-natal bee incursions?

 

[Litsinger]

Any of these gimmicks quickly turn into a nuisance on any appreciable scale.

Might prove to be the only option for those in high bee density areas, even w/ resistant stock:

https://www.beesource.com/threads/robbing-screens-as-an-ipm-tool-lower-mite-loads.367299/#replies

 

[Litsinger]

... but in the general population they are rare.

In the vein of the original post, Dr. Martin has studied this question and determined that between 20 and 25% of UK beekeepers are TF (see attached).

I suspect if the question were studied here in the US it would yield similar results.

 

[Litsinger]

So - info from less than 10%...

This sampling size is about the same as our US honey bee surveys, and the UK survey benefits from having more beekeepers participating as a percentage of the overall number of beekeepers nationally:

‘For the 2023-2024 survey, 1,652 beekeepers provided valid responses from across the United States. These beekeepers collectively managed 337,134 colonies on October 1, 2023, representing 13% of the estimated 2.51 million managed honey-producing colonies estimated to be in the country in 2023 (USDA NASS, 2024).’

 

[Litsinger]

The mean may shift toward more or less resistance.

That's the idea - Natural Selection makes the alleles that are beneficial in a specific context less rare, increasing the amount of the correct alleles that are brought forward:

https://www.beesource.com/threads/the-backside-of-selection-a-forgotten-cause-of-bee-mortality.377165/?post_id=2037514#post-2037514

And this appears to differ based on genetic composition. The pre-print that @little_john shared from Steve Riley (attached) begins to unpack some of this for us.

 

[Litsinger]

So to get consistently better bees when WE want them, it takes artificial selection. Intelligent intervention. Not a random process.

I'm not sure it has to be an either/or proposition. Every survey conducted in the last decade suggests we have as many feral colonies now than we did before Varroa - and at least in North America this population is larger than the managed population.

This coupled with the examples we have of growing panmictic populations around the globe suggests to me that Natural Selection is neither random nor necessarily requires long ages to complete it's work.

We have previously analyzed work here on Beesource of rapid adaptation in many species including mice and lizards when confronted with novel threats. Given the honey bee's recombination rate it stands to reason they will fare better than most in rapidly adapting to new challenges - particularly one already familiar to hymenoptera.

 

[Litsinger]

... some mite resistance is being found by University of Guelph...

As well as with their LVG program, which employed open-mating:

https://www.beesource.com/threads/university-of-guelph-low-varroa-growth-program.375448/?post_id=1997935#post-1997935

 

[Litsinger]

Disagree on this.

To the extent we trust the samples, looks like the BIP pegged TF practitioners at around 20 - 25% too:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7810333/

 

[Litsinger]

We don't really know and have little control over the heritability.

Are you making this statement in an artificial selection context or considering a larger panmictic context?

With our musings here on this theme of varroa resistance selection, it would be helpful to have some data presented that supports the varied assertions.

 

[Litsinger]

On average.

The statement was proffered that TF beekeeping was 'rare'.

So on average, there are likely at any given time between 20 and 25% of hobbyist and sideline beekeepers having a go at TF beekeeping.

Certainly a minority position but not exactly rare.