Maybe cheaper and less risk to watch his videos.


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Leo+Sharashkin+

 

Just read his site, articles by him and about him, watch the vids, and read the book "Keeping bees with a smile" (if want to buy that; the original in Russian is a free PDF).
That will will get you the same material and at your own pace.

Crucial part - his results are reproducible at his location only as he is plugged into the local feral population.

 

I think he is already booked solid but there is a good chance that with the COVID-19 they will be cancelled. Personally I would rather listen to talks about bees by someone like Michael Palmer who has made a living at it.

 

Bump.

 

I considered going.
but then discovered that "room and board" + Gas took the trip to a place I felt was to pricy.
I instead bough his 3 most popular books, IMO that and a couple of his Utubes took me close to where the onsite boot camp would for < 25% of the cost

If Money in not an issue then place it in the entertainment column and go. Keep in mind his DR is in forestry and has some of that slant. If you are a visual learner it would be a good trip.

GG

 

Same here.

 

I gained a lot of info from just the book "Keeping Bees With A Smile". The class might be helpful for a begginer like me, but you could also just read and watch his online stuff.

 

Wife and I went in 2021. We drove out from MD and saw the sites and visited relatives on the way so killed a few birds with the one stone. We felt it was worth it (compared to other vacation costs it was minor really) and in-person training is always better than read-a-book stuff for me. Besides, youre with like minded people - some already keeping and some just starting - you can also network for qus later given the layens hive US group is pretty small still. Seems like lots of people on Beesource like to poo-poo Dr Leo but have no experience with him, and have no reason to do so except that hes doing a different "religion" and we all know how religious wars go. If you consider all the people making money on Langstroth stuff (and noone poopoos them), and that each of our geographic regions require slightly tweekings of the standard bee keeping methods, hes no different in either way. I do wish he had his own forum site for his past class participants to reengage in, but oh well. Just my .02.

 

Seems like lots of people on Beesource like to poo-poo Dr Leo but have no experience with him, and have no reason to do so except that hes doing a different "religion" and we all know how religious wars go.

Mind you some of us here do have some experience.
Issue with Dr. Leo is that he is sending mixed messages and feeds a certain amount of mis-information (which then sets up people to fail - after they spend money with him).

 

Here is just one example (from Wisconsin too).
Notice how by October those beautifully decorated Layens hives are empty of bees.

This what will happen if you are to follow Dr. Leo to the letter in most places in Wisconsin (meaning to leave them alone) - been there, done that.

(146) 162 Day Inspection 20 Frame Layens Horizontal Bee Hive on October 9, 2021 - YouTube
(146) Winterize 174 Day Inspection 20 Frame Layens Horizontal Bee Hive on October 21, 2021 - YouTube

Pretty sure this season it will be a repeat of the 2021 for this lady.
Dr. Leo does not teach how to identify a mite crash in his beautiful leave-them-alone Layens hives.
But here is perfect picture of one.

 

Is there anything wrong with layens... not really. Bit inconvenient sometimes to get matching and compatible equipment but that isn't the end of the world.

The biggest problem I have with Leo's methods is that he is the latest iteration in the Lazy Beekeeping movement that has been around for a while. I use to be a lazy beekeeper myself... it is very expensive.

Laziness gets you losses with any creature. There is a reason his honey is 90 bucks a pound. He doesn't make much. (And he is very popular due to good social media marketing)

While I am on social media too we take a different approach. Sweat equity and bee husbandry can get you this.

 

While I am on social media too we take a different approach. Sweat equity and bee husbandry can get you this.

I agree with that 100%. We didn't grow the bee operation to the size of yours, but when wife and I purchased our current property we decided to expand on the bee operation. We rolled all the revenue from bee stuff back into purchasing 'bee stuff' until we had everything we needed to comfortably run 50 colonies, 100 if we pushed it.

The 'honey house' (really just a 12x20 shed)

The extracting room (the little table has since been replaced with a proper capping setup similar to the MUTT)

It's all from 'sweat equity', we sweated to end up with the revenue, then spent it on improving the overall setup. The honey house has a warm room that'll comfortably hold 50 supers without stacking to high, we are set up to extract and bottle in there.

It really depends how far you want to take it, but, the bee business is great in so much as one can start with very little and build it into a substantial business by inputting nothing more than sweat equity.

 

Dr. Leo does it mostly via his keyboard! Not much sweat there! You sweating guys just is Neanderthals

 

Ok guys, I hear you on your comments. And dont get me wrong, I'm not a blind disciple of Dr Leo persay - ala David Koresh etc. But I dont think its fair to bash him if youve not gone to his class and heard what he says or doesnt say. I dont ever remember him saying that his methods are the holy grail to be followed to the T, or anything like that. Yes he tauts "set it and forget it". But my notes also show that he said, it works for him - most of the time - but he gets problem hives too, and you need to work w the bees if you need to. Yes hes on 100 acres of tick infested forest, so hes mostly insulated from problems; gets lots of wild swarms etc etc - he acknowledges that. And he gives credit to Lazutin and DeLayens ad nauseam, so hes not plagiarizing like an infomercial. Really, these days if you dont have an ounce of common sense (and I'll fully agree we do have a country of numbskulls who cant think critically, god help us), then yes, stay in your armchair, eat your funyuns, and watch the Bachelor for your fun.
Personally, I listen to everyone, fish out the nuggets, and chuck the rest. When youre a bull****ter yourself, its pretty easy to spot a bull****ter no matter what the topic. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, IDK. I'm just a hobby guy.

 

Ok guys, I hear you on your comments. And dont get me wrong, I'm not a blind disciple of Dr Leo persay - ala David Koresh etc. But I dont think its fair to bash him if youve not gone to his class and heard what he says or doesnt say. I dont ever remember him saying that his methods are the holy grail to be followed to the T, or anything like that. Yes he tauts "set it and forget it". But my notes also show that he said, it works for him - most of the time - but he gets problem hives too, and you need to work w the bees if you need to. Yes hes on 100 acres of tick infested forest, so hes mostly insulated from problems; gets lots of wild swarms etc etc - he acknowledges that. And he gives credit to Lazutin and DeLayens ad nauseam, so hes not plagiarizing like an infomercial. Really, these days if you dont have an ounce of common sense (and I'll fully agree we do have a country of numbskulls who cant think critically, god help us), then yes, stay in your armchair, eat your funyuns, and watch the Bachelor for your fun.
Personally, I listen to everyone, fish out the nuggets, and chuck the rest. When youre a bull****ter yourself, its pretty easy to spot a bull****ter no matter what the topic. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, IDK. I'm just a hobby guy.

OK, here.
Read for yourself:

Natural beekeeping -

“Pulling honey is all I do.” – One hive visit per year. – Mistakes to avoid.

Treatment-free

- Healthy strong colonies without any drugs.

Directly from:
Natural Beekeeping Workshop ~ October 15-16, 2022 ~ Cabool, MO

Natural Beekeeping Course | Dr Leo Sharashkin

horizontalhive.com

One who is posting this is selling mis-information to those who don't know any better and are looking for magic (there are always suckers for magic).

Yes, I get it - academically sounding workshop about "ergonomic benefits of a horizontal hive" will not sell as well (sounds boring!).
As well - academically sounding workshop about "minimal/no treatment beekeeping in Southern Missouri" will not sell as well (while being very likely accurate and factual).
It has to be "Natural and treatment-free and one-visit-per-year blah blah...." - to sell well.

Last summer I did just such a horizontal hive workshop (meaning it to be technical).
People came looking for basic beekeeping advice (NOT to discuss the nuts and bolts of the horizontal hive beekeeping).
It was kind of a flop that way, pretty much I was talking into emptiness.

 

A partial quote from Russ:

"I think what we may be observing here is the distinction between marketing and cold-hard reality- any consumer industry that comes to mind uses marketing to emphasize the benefits while minimizing the risks in an attempt to encourage a purchase - "

So true, but I have to admit becoming more and more browned off when I perceive lop sided encouragement and unbalanced portrayal of probable outcomes. No doubt it is a fact that many people would not fall in if they were initially shown the unsweetened reality. Marketing sure is not for the benefit of the bees.

Doctor Leo is undoubtedly a sharp marketer and would be a good case study for someone with marketing aspirations.

 

I will hang up (repeatedly) this YT channel from a WI lady with her two Layen's hives.

This year she got her two packages of Buckfast in hopes that the outcome will be different.
This is such a good demo channel of an inexperienced beekeeper who attempts to replicate Leo S. beekeeping model down to the letter (perfect hives, minimal invasion, and all).

She (accidentally! since she did not know any better) documented her mite crashes in October 2021.
Keep track of it and see what happens in October 2022.

I did suggest to her to review the mite control situation - which pretty much went unheard.
The point of installing those packages was the perfect timing to conduct a clean start using OAD (which was blown) - could have been sufficient to even make it into the 2023.

You already know my prediction - she will be buying new bees in spring 2023 (unnecessarily).

https://www.youtube.com/c/BeeLogwithSuperBeeShirleyandBBSBees

 

I have seen it written that a corporation's first responsibility is to their shareholders return on investment. Dr. Leo does not have the same corporate image up front so he will take more Flak than Mann Lake for instance. We can lament about it but really the situation amounts to "whatever the market will bear". There are lots of far worse operators than this.
Some people that do speaking engagements dont purvey such a large component of wishful thinking. Thinking of Michael Palmer or Roger Patterson; they are not trying to capitalize on the dreams of the innocents.

 

As a retired software engineer I can say that both free Open Source and for profit Microsoft, Apple and tons of others make good software.... I think Dr.Leo, Michel Palmer and Roger Patterson do good to beekeeping. It is your choice if you want to stay with beekeeper's Open Source or pay for the know-how or use both.

 

Frank:

You make some good counter-points on this score. Two thoughts:

1. Dr. Leo makes quite an emphasis that he is plowing company profits back into preserving Ozark wildness- so he may take more of a 'corporate' approach to profit taking under a perspective of supporting the greater good.

2. Most people make assumptions about Dr. Leo's approach without ever having been to a seminar. There is a reason there is a paucity of videos online of his talks- he wants people to pay for the service he is offering. Good or ill I'd suggest it is difficult to develop a full appreciation for what he is suggesting people do unless you've been to hear what he actually has to say.

 

Most people make assumptions about Dr. Leo's approach without ever having been to a seminar. There is a reason there is a paucity of videos online of his talks- he wants people to pay for the service he is offering. Good or ill I'd suggest it is difficult to develop a full appreciation for what he is suggesting people do unless you've been to hear what he actually has to say.

Does it not occur to you that there might be another, 'more suspect' reason, such as avoiding widespread criticism and/or ridicule ?

I don't think it's always necessary to have first-hand experience of something in order to form a judgement regarding it. For example, you wouldn't expect those who legislate against harmful drugs such as heroin to have had first-hand experience of addiction before passing appropriate laws. To be aware of their effect upon others is considered adequate knowledge - likewise towards socially harmful phenomena, such as religious (and beekeeping ?) cults.

I hold negative views about Sharashkin, based primarily upon his 'guru' status, his intolerance of other proven beekeeping methods, and his unrelenting marketing and self-promotion.
LJ

 

My wife and I had lunch with Dr. Leo and the author of Beekeeping with a smile many years ago at the Mo. State Convention.
I cant recall his name and he passed away about a year later.
He was asking all kinds of questions about my Lang hives and he was very interested in my methods.
Dr. Leo on the other hand insisted that I was doing it all wrong even though its been working for 30 years for me.
Even my wife who was there for the crafting competition was very offended by his comments.
I am only about 60 miles from him now and still don't care for his methods.
I have had phone calls from people asking what to do about there bees and first question is what kind of hive do they have. If they say one like Dr. Leo has I tell them to call him. Reply He wants to charge to answer questions.
My reply I have no idea how his hives work and wish them luck.

 

My wife and I had lunch with Dr. Leo and the author of Beekeeping with a smile many years ago at the Mo. State Convention.
I cant recall his name and he passed away about a year later.
He was asking all kinds of questions about my Lang hives and he was very interested in my methods.
Dr. Leo on the other hand insisted that I was doing it all wrong even though its been working for 30 years for me.
Even my wife who was there for the crafting competition was very offended by his comments.
I am only about 60 miles from him now and still don't care for his methods.
I have had phone calls from people asking what to do about there bees and first question is what kind of hive do they have. If they say one like Dr. Leo has I tell them to call him. Reply He wants to charge to answer questions.
My reply I have no idea how his hives work and wish them luck.

Of course those people can come to Beesource and get free advice here.
Some of us here know how Dr. Leo hives work.

But people also have Google and Youtube (and Beesource "search" function)..
Totally free to use.
And, frankly, I'd sent people away to do their own searching (instead the spending my time rehashing the same old subjects for them).

Speaking of the "wrong ways" is wrong.
There are preferred ways.
Those preferred ways should fit your needs and preferences and abilities.
However (and this is my own rant) - most people are plainly unaware of the options and are very rigid about it too - this is where I will support Dr. Leo (just will not charge to answer questions, but because I don't need to charge and don't have to answer either).

 

Yes that was him. I have his book at home in Mo. but we are in Pa. due to a family emergency.
We were very surprised at the differences in opinions being they were traveling on tore together.
I may reread it this winter.

 

Don't drink the kool-aid,

 

Was just a sip, have sense enough to not down the whole pitcher!

Interesting thread, now understand where the animosity is directed. No need to feel shame in enjoying the book.

 

Well, thanks to LJ's hints above, I looked up a physical copy of the book in my own library system.
Cool, I thought.
Let me then order it and look, because I can.

Well - it seems someone borrowed it permanently.

 

Saw this post on FB and I was reminded of this thread:

 

something about old dogs and new tricks come to mind.
nice to see the adjustment.

A step in the right direction.
who know maby he is reading Gregs threads under an assumed name

GG

 

Thought about this thread today when watching a Fred Dunn interview with Dr. Leo from last year. From about the 57 minute point on he articulates more clearly than any other place that I've found online the limitations of his approach and the precepts regarding the synergistic factors at work that confer success. Well with the watch IMHO:

 

From about the 57 minute point on he articulates more clearly than any other place that I've found online the limitations of his approach and the precepts regarding the synergistic factors at work that confer success. Well with the watch IMHO:

Now he is talking!
Of which most of us knew already.

PS: I just realized the video was posted on April 2, 2022; it's been posted over a year;

Still when I communicated with him directly back in 2017 yet via emails - importance of the local bees was never mentioned in our back and forth.

That was most likely not understood at that moment yet on his part - assuming that most everyone has similar situation to his own.
This is where the idea of catching swarms of supposed "feral bees" comes from even if you are located in the Chicago suburbia, as if no difference exists.

That point should have been the #1 and drilled into the heads of the audience.

 

Dr, Leo posted a new video talking with Michael Palmer.

I am disappointed I was not able to visit Michael last weekend because one of the drivers did not come.
We were in the area for a wedding and I was invited to visit, but I was driving the van and could not leave the family with out transportation.

 

Dr, Leo posted a new video talking with Michael Palmer.

I'd be interested to see it- do you happen to have a link?

 

To an old LJ point, the opioids is not a great analogy because some people have a lot of experience from watching others suffer. It is hard to make a real judgement without knowing more about the man and his ways. LJ has clearly researched a lot about his ways and may be well able to pass judgement based on that....
To Greg's off topic point, I just did a cutout yesterday of a feral colony in someone's house. Look like carni mutts. Yellow dot queen.....! Haha
And I would only spend that kind of money on something if it looked really fun. I doubt a guru has all that much info to offer if they are trying to earn their living charging for it. Compare the Michael Bush guru method: yes you can pay him to buy his book or give a talk/ workshop. Or you can just read his site or posts here. From outside Leo looks like a guru trying to profit from making himself a guru. MB is a guru because his followers put him on a pedestal. This is a notable difference to me and I would definitely avoid one of them, unless, as I said, there were other factors that looked fun.....
I may have missed it, did you wind up going to a workshop with him? How was it?

 

a feral colony in someone's house. Look like carni mutts. Yellow dot queen.....! Haha

Now picture this - what if she was NOT marked.
Here you go - you got yourself some feral bees!
Then you can go and tell everyone about the survivors and all the rest of it.

In fact, just another case of freshly stray bees.

 

Agree! And I have a yard nearby. I may know where they came from....

 

Yes LJ, I understood that. I was making the finer point that, just as one does not need to take drugs one also does not need to keep bees the way he does to find out whether or not it's for me. I was defending Russ' point though, that that is not the same as listening to him / going to his workshop. I am sure the folks making the regulations go to many "workshops" before they come up with a law. Similarly, it may not be a bad idea to listen to a Leo as well as many others before passing judgment (deciding which way I want to keep bees). In light of your research about his writings, however, I would agree with you that it may be hogwash, and have never heard him myself.... I don't think I will go out of my way to.... Thanks!

 

I would agree with you that it may be hogwash, and have never heard him myself.... I don't think I will go out of my way to....

Well, it may not be complete "hogwash", so much as 'limited' - probably in the same way as Michael Bush's TF results are also 'limited'. In what way MB's TF is limited I couldn't say for sure - maybe it's location, local genetic dominance ... something along those lines, but I've always thought that there must be a deeper story there about MB's TF successes, as many other people fail where MB succeeds. Maybe the same is true of Sharashkin ?

If you read the following: Keeping Bees with a Smile: Principles and Practice of Natural Beekeeping [2 ed.] 0865719276, 9780865719279 - DOKUMEN.PUB you may notice that the word "local" occurs perhaps over 100 times (I haven't actually made a count) - and this is central to Sharashkin's story. By 'local' bees he's referring to AMM, which at one point he says no longer widely exist in their original 'pure' form - but nevertheless, acquiring similar bees are central to his thesis.

And this, to my mind, is where his idealistic vision for the future falls down, for the vast majority of us do not live in a rural backwater as he does. What applies to his own situation does not correspond to those of the vast majority of beekeepers, and so he's effectively weaving wishful dreams which must appear very attractive to those prospective New Age beekeepers without the necessary mileage under their belts to appreciate the significance of local beekeeping issues.

It would appear that the 'secret' of his success revolves around the bees he keeps, and not with the 'magic hives' and associated hardware which feature on his website. But it is precisely those bees, which - in practice - are not readily available (or maintainable, year on year) for the vast majority of beekeepers. This issue, of course, has already been flagged-up in this thread.

I've often thought that parallels can be observed between major world religions and the craft of beekeeping, in that both have their principle actors or gurus; both have their sacred texts; and both have their sets of rules for acceptable conduct.
On page 100 of Beekeeping With A Smile can be found the heading: "The Central Commandments of Natural Beekeeping." 'nuff said. LOL
LJ