Klaus Wallner in 2003 hypothesized that Oxalic (and any organic acid) kills mites due to the pH alteration in the hive, which interferes with chitin synthesis. Honeybees tolerate much the organic acids better than the mites, because oxalic is present in nectar sources at concentrations approaching therapeutic levels (Rademacher, 2005)

Chitin is a methylated chain. (Nitrogen compounds are attached to one node of the carbon ring)


The small organic acids interfere with the Oxygen-- that links the two ring structures in chitin.

Compare to Sucrose. Here small organic acids are used to hydrolyze the ring structure by binding H+ ions with the O-- bridge.

Chitin is synthesized from the glucose ring of sugar.



The ascorbic acid that Michael Bush advocates dumping into syrup functions the exact same way. It acidifies the syrup, changing the ambient pH for the mites, the honeybees are buffered from its effect. Unfortunately for the folk medicine inadvertently promoted by Bush, syrup feeding is the least effective way of introducing organic acid miticides into hives, dribbling directly or vaporizing are more effective.


Wallner, Klaus. 2003. Control of the mite Varroa destructor in honey bee colonies. Pesticide Outlook: 80-84.

Eva RADEMACHER*, Marika HARZ. 2005. Oxalic acid for the control of varroosis in honey bee
colonies – a review

 

JW....

If OA interferes with chitin synthesis, it stands to reason that OAV could very well destroy the cuticle in the mites' feet causing them to fall off.....

 

I saw an electron microscope photo showing the hair burned off the mouth parts of a mite. Sounds like the deck is stacked against varroa with this stuff

 

BG........ can you post that photo?

 

http://www.geocities.ws/vaporizerklaus/Oxalic_Acid.html

Pic is at top right.

 

The quoted paper is behind a paywall, and I am not paying to see it. However, the abstract is available for free.

Physical damage to the chitin plate and position of Varroa destructor on hive bottoms after use of different varroacidal treatments.


Significant differences in physical damage share to mites' chitin plate were observed after use of Apiwarol AS, formic acid, lactic acid, oxalic acid and Beevital Hive Clean preparation; respectively 1.5, 17.0, 12.0, 33.0 and 31.0% (P≤0.05). The high incidence of physical damage to the chitin plate while using oxalic acid and Beevital Hive Clean indicate the direct activity of bees in removal of mites.

http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20123347298.html

The quote is only a portion of the free abstract. Click the link to read the rest of the abstract, or pay for access to the full document.

 

Slightly off track , but in a quiz be Long Lane Honey, oxalic acid is not an approved treatment for bees in the US.

 

True, But I can do anything I want with my bees including applying raid if I so choose to. The only time an application becomes illegal is if it effects yours or anyone elses bees. I can kill them all day long if I own them. Found that out this past summer by the way. That happens to be why it is not illegal for a home owner to kill bees that have built a hive in their home. They own them they can do what they wish with them.

 

>OAV destroys the cuticle in the mite's feet very quickly and the mite's feet actually fall off. OAV also enters and blocks their breathing tubes thus suffocating them.

But bees' feet are made of the same material... and their tracheae are as well...

 

Either what you have written is true and that is not how Varroa mites are killed or what you've written is false ........ either way, mites (but not bees,brood or queens ) are decimated by OAV.

 

SNL, so if OA treatments actually become legal, will this mean that the company or companies that make the stuff be bought out by larger cooperation's and the OA be sold at a much higher price?? I just wonder how it will be "controlled" if someone like me goes to the hardware store and buys a tub of it for $5. Not to mention all the different gadgets that will be available on the market!!!

I welcome the legalization of OA as a mite treatment!!

 

BG,
I surely don't think so. Too many suppliers of OA in the market. I believe you'll still be able to buy it just as now. However, I do see the beekeeping suppliers stepping in with their "own" OA along with all the gadgets to apply it............

 

The assumed use of a product probably assesses the need for label directions and cautions. Sugar for instance if used for other than a food source could become a deadly energy release component. Oxalic acid crystals are considered to be used as a bleach agent / cleaner so the precautions about what would happen when heated are not part of the packaging. My bet that approval for use in vaporizers for mite control on bees will mandate information on dosage and precautions. If it is packaged this way it will undoubtedly have a somewhat higher price to account for packaging, distribution, and liability issues. Enforcement agencies are already overloaded with legislation that they do not have the resources to police. My guess is that it will gradually gain acceptance in the US and only be prosecuted as a technicality if a person is in flagrant violation of a number of other definitely prohibited activities related to bees. Has anyone heard of anyone actually being prosecuted for its use in bee hives?

Some people go to lenght to suggest the law is waiting to pounce upon anyone using it so, and will draw and quarter the person and seize all his assets!

 

>Either what you have written is true

Chitin is chitin whether on a mite or an insect.

 

Chitin is chitin whether on a mite or an insect.

Maybe so, but OAV is not decimating the bees, so perhaps something else is at play .........

 

> That's all I was pointing out.

:thumbsup: Cool


.......

Perhaps not quite what you wanted to hear, Larry, but I bought a glow-plug the other day to experiment with.

 

Perhaps not quite what you wanted to hear, Larry, but I bought a glow-plug the other day to experiment with.

Hope it fails!😄

 

"A pesticide is any substance or mixture of substances intended for preventing, destroying, repelling, or mitigating any pest." Which would include powdered sugar as it is used in a beehive or even a mite shake test. I don't think powdered sugar has even been considered or a determination made. OA has.

 

I refer you to the EPA definition in post #21.

As I said earlier, in my opinion FIFRA - as currently written - is overly broad, but the definition quoted in post #21 is very clear.


Note that the EPA has a list of "generally regarded as safe" [GRAS] substances that can mitigate that pesticide definition in terms of required registration. Oxalic acid is not on the GRAS list. Sugar may be.

 

As I said earlier, in my opinion FIFRA - as currently written - is overly broad, but the definition quoted in post #21 is very clear.

To my way of thinking, we're missing something here. Powdered sugar used to combat mites certainly cannot be considered a pesticide..........If you're not sure that sugar is on the GRAS list, how can you be sure that OA is?

 

Graham, i agree with you on what your definition says. I don't get how you separate substances like Sugar from those like OA in regerd to that definition.

I agree if you use OA in a hive for the purpose of killing mites it is a pesticide in accordance with your definition. I have not problem with that. But I also see that powder sugar dusting is just as much a pesticide. Now in the case of OA the EPA has looked at it and made a determination. they have set their regulations. and those regulations are "None". Now has the same thing happened with powdered sugar? I think not. Has the EPA rendered there determination on sugar? No. has it ever been submitted for ruling? No. If it where what do you suspect the EPA's ruling might be. I think of something like. "Hmmmm powdered sugar on bees. Well add a little milk and you have breakfast, next".

You quote the EPA and then make assumptions as to specific decisions they have made in regard to that quote. It is your assumptions that are incorrect. And I have provided links in the past to the specific decisions the EPA has made regarding OA. Look em up I am no more concerned about the use of OA in a hive than I am sugar or soapy water. As far as I can tell before the EPA could touch me they woudl have to first prove that OA harms a mite in the first place. I say that OA antagonizes the bees and causes them to go on a murdering spree. Mites are nothing more than collateral damage.

 

Graham, i agree with you on what your definition says. I don't get how you separate substances like Sugar from those like OA in regerd to that definition.

If your use of "you" is a reference to me personally, I did not make any comment about sugar being used as a pesticide. Sugar may be on the GRAS list, or it may not be.

The legal status of sugar (with regard to FIFRA) does nothing to alter/modify/define the legal status of oxalic acid when used to control varroa pest under FIFRA.

As far as I can tell before the EPA could touch me they woudl have to first prove that OA harms a mite in the first place. I say that OA antagonizes the bees and causes them to go on a murdering spree. Mites are nothing more than collateral damage.

If you want to use oxalic acid to control mites in your hives, I have absolutely no problem with that! :thumbsup:

My comments are not about actions one should do or not do. Use oxalic acid or don't, your choice. My comments are limited to whether or not oxalic is regarded as a pesticide under FIFRA when used to control varroa mites.

Laws are broken on a regular basis by anyone simply driving a vehicle on the road. Only a very small percentage of the offenders who fail to "maintain lane control" actually get cited. But the definition under the law remains the same regardless of how many people violate that definition or the precise cause of that violation.

The same concept applies to pesticides, and specifically oxalic acid used to control varroa. Use it or don't use it, the legal definition of a pesticide remains the same.

Write your congressperson if you don't like the current law! :lookout:




PS: If you were to get cited for OA, personally I feel a better defense would be that you are bleaching the wood inside the the hives. After all, oxalic acid is widely recognized/sold as a wood bleach. That defense might be easier for your attorney to present to the jury while maintaining a straight face. :shhhh:

.

 

You use oxalic acid to bleach bee hair to get buckfast or italian bees.