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Basic Economics of Honey Sales and Extractors

11K views 52 replies 23 participants last post by  old drone57  
#1 ·
I am planning on purchasing an extractor in the near future. I hate buying cheap, but at the same time I don't want to sink $1,500 into it either.

My current goal is to maintain (5) strong hives year round, and maybe a couple of nucs.

I am not looking to make this a full time job, but it would be attractive if it could pay for itself.

How many mediums would you keep on a good hive?

How much honey could one reasonably expect to collect from that hive (pounds)?

What is a reasonable rate for honey ($/pound)?

What is involved in selling honey, small scale, local, legitimately? Inspection? LLC? Taxes?

What is a good extractor for my situation? I don't mind cranking, but honestly I would prefer to flip a switch and come back 10 minutes later to empty frames.
 
#2 ·
I don't mind cranking, but honestly I would prefer to flip a switch and come back 10 minutes later to empty frames
A electric powered extractor is one thing, but a 'walk away and come back later' is something else. Typically, extractor RPMs start out relatively slow and would be increased as some of the honey load is shed. But that requires an operator to adjust the controls, OR a more sophisticated extractor could have a PLC / CPU / timer that could make those speed adjustments unattended. But the typical / average electric extractor does not have a sophisticated control system.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Location Location Location

What flavor of honey?

I believe some are getting as much as 150# per colony, it depends on many things.

I have seen hives stacked 7 boxes tall.
I see no need to leave the honey on after it is capped. I'd move it to a drying room.

Some states require a hive be registered, some states will want to inspect your bottling operation or have bottling requirements. (Labeling)
Some states have a volume threshold for inspection.

Extracting honey you need some special equipment.
A warming or drying room to condition the honey before extraction
You need a De-Capper to uncap the honey
You need a decapping tank to catch the honey and cappings that come off the decapped frames.
you need to separate the honey from the cappings to recover that honey.
Extractor
You need a tank to store the clean honey.
Bottling tank and lableling equipment.
A beefree and sanitary place to locate this machinery preferably with floor drains......
This place needs adequate power and water and is best located with a shipping dock.
You need room to back in or turn around a semi
A honey house should be built separate from a domicile so it can be sold separately.
That honey house is going to need pumps and filters so you are not stopping to empty buckets.

I don't have any extraction gear now besides a vintage galvanized 4 frame hand crank that I am hesitant to use.
I plan to make use of my bee clubs honey house if I get a significant crop.
I have bought most all of my gear second hand and advise the same start looking now, when you find the right deal you will know it.
Duck River dude says to buy bigger than you need as you will grow into gear, temper that with your budget limitations.
It is very hard to ease into honey extraction as all the the gear is dependent on the other it's a system.
I'd advise joining a local club and see how others are doing it, or maybe use their gear while you build yours.
Working with another beek and seeing how an experienced extraction operation works, prior to spending money will be advantageous.
I would not buy gear your first season, and buy second hand if possible.
 
#4 ·
Take a look at this extractor and other in their line. 4/8 Frame Honey Extractor Electric Beekeeping Equipment Large Stainless Steel | VEVOR US
With medium frames it does 8 at a time. When I had 6 hives (5 years ago) I bought one and once I had 12 hives instead of buying a much larger extractor I just purchased a second one (3 years ago). Both has worked great! How much honey, well depends on many things, in our area we average just a bit over 3 pounds per medium frame.
 
#5 ·
My current goal is to maintain (5) strong hives year round, and maybe a couple of nucs.
What about you figure out how to keep your 5 strong hives alive year around (and a couple of nucs) first. After a couple of years you may look into more capital investment, if still into it.
Just trying to save your money.
:)

See, new beeks like you are the best source of snatching slightly used equipment for bargain prices. Just how things stand.
 
#6 ·
Look for a used extractor. A good American made extractor will wear out a number of beekeepers. MY sixties vintage Dadant was probably a little bigger than I needed but I only changed the bearings a couple years after I got it and it is ready to wear out another beekeeper when I am thru with it. When I read your post I see a business model not reality. Business plans just like battle plans seldom survive first contact. Good luck.
 
#7 ·
According to NASS honey production survey, a hive in Georgia produced an average of 34 pounds in 2021. That is just an average and can vary widely. I am guessing you are better than average so let's go with 40 pounds a hive.

How many mediums would you keep on a good hive?

My medium frames average roughly 3.5 pounds per frame when capped. I run 10 frame supers. A 9 frame super probably averages a little over 4 pounds. So, at 40 pounds a hive, that is one super per hive in the state of Georgia. Again, this is an average. You will have some hives that give you 3 supers, some that give you none. That's beekeeping.

I would say you need a minimum of 7 medium supers, but I would be more comfortable with 10. Why so many? Because you don't know which one is going to "turn it on" and when they are going to do it. I would be prepared or you may miss honey.


How much honey could one reasonably expect to collect from that hive (pounds)?
40 pounds.

What is a reasonable rate for honey ($/pound)?

I doubt you will get a consensus here. I am in a economically-depressed rural area of Alabama, but have the benefit of selling the majority of my honey to travelers headed to the Florida beaches. I package and sell my jars wholesale to a single retailer. I get around $5 a pound. They get around $10 a pound. I think your price per pound depends primarily on how affluent your customers are and how much effort and time are you willing to spend selling your honey.

What is involved in selling honey, small scale, local, legitimately? Inspection? LLC? Taxes?

I am an attorney. I set up well over 100 LLCs in my private practice. I don't have my honey business in an LLC. I don't recommend you do either. But you will get a lot of opinions on that.


What is a good extractor for my situation? I don't mind cranking, but honestly I would prefer to flip a switch and come back 10 minutes later to empty frames.

I strongly discourage you from getting a hand-cranked extractor. If you are certain that you will NEVER have more than roughly 5 hives, a 9 frame radial extractor with motor will probably serve you well. If you are not certain of this, get a 20 frame.
nm
 
#8 ·
to the Op
I somewhat disagree with most of the equipment above.

I had 20 production Hives last year and My 18 frame radial worked fine (1800 bucks) and worth it.
it has a dial, so you go 10% , 20% 30% etc. staying in each position depending on room temp and honey thickness.

for 5-10 hives:
you do not need a drying room
you do not need an uncapper, I use a manual knife, with serrated edge.
you do not need an uncappang station, I use a large bowl, my buddie made something out of a tote with a cutting board top and slides the cappings into the tote.
when spinning I uncapp the next couple, then when thru a "cycle" I add 1 frame per third of the basket. so 18 frames in 3 sets of 6. I do 1/2 then a spin cycle. 10,20,40,70,90,100 percent for 2 min. then I fill the other 1/2 with full frames, do the second cycle, with all 18 frames, 1/2 are on second spin. after cycle 2 the first half of the frames come out and the 3rd set go in. so then each set of frames (9) gets 2 spin cycles. and is actually what is in my 10F boxes, I use 9. a "full" extractor is better ballanced than an honey never spinned one.
I have 4 5 gal pails with honey gates, and a 400 micron filter, as the filter fills, I bucket swap.
I can easily do 4-6 supers after supper at nite, they warm in the garage all day so by 6pm are warm enough to process.
end of the evening the cappings go in the strainers. by the next nite 95% of the honey is out. I dump all of them in a "Jet" sled the bees glean the remaining honey, the dryer capping go in 5 gal pails to be processed after deer season when I have time.

IMO 4 supers per production hive is enough, if the 3rd one fills, I would extract #1 and#2 and put them back on to never be totally out. 1/2 the years I do an early and a late extract, smaller bee population or a poorer flow 1 extract is enough. or get a few more supers.

so for me I spent the bucks on the extractor, use a manual knife, and buckets with strainers (400 micron)
3 or 4 nights would likely get your 5 hives worth of honey done, or a good weekend effort.
the rest of the "stuff" is not really needed for a 5-10 hive operation.

good luck
the advice to look for a used one is good they are pricy, I recommend you get a "radial" extractor, easier on comb and less time .

GG
 
#9 ·
I am in a simailr situation. 3rd year now. Have between 5-10 hives now, biggest I would get to would probably be 15 production hives. Last year I harvested 400lbs with a 2 frame hand crank extractor. Cranking was not fun, but something I could manage being in my mid 20's. I know I won't get anything new for this year since it is already late May, but will definitely place an order sometime in the fall. I have been eyeing up Maxant's 20 frame extractor, 25 or 42 gallon bottling tank, and their mobile uncapping tank. This would allow me to keep uncapping while the extractor is running, and the tank would let me bottle a lot at once. The price is steep ($5,000+), but it should last me my lifetime. In my setup these three items are the most critical. At my age lifting heavy buckets isn't a problem, but can see adding in a clarifier, pump, and filter if I ever got around the 1200 pounds per year mark. Anything else would just be a luxury and not a necessity in my opinion.
 
#12 ·
I'm way undergunned but I'm running 30+ production colonies using a 12 frame extractor and a basic Mann lake uncapping tank (2 plastic totes, one with an open bottom and grate that filters catches most of the wax and sits inside the other that catches the honey) an unheated uncapping knife, and extract straight into 5 gallon buckets. I have a couple of buckets with honey gates that I use for bottling. I extracted 800 lbs last year from my young apiary in my kitchen and should more than triple that this year using the same set up until I upgrade next season.
 
#13 ·
Thank you all for the feed back!

Rader Sidetrack, my statement of flip a switch and walk away was probably too broad. I've seen some reviews of extractors discussing starting slow, and then ramping the speed up over a 10 minute period.

JustBees, I'm NW Georgia. No clue on flavor, I haven't developed that skill yet. Excellent write up.

Groundhwg, I looked at similar models on Amazon. I am glad to hear a first hand review of them. I was moderately concerned that the price was too low.

GregB, I am going on year four. Admitted it's a bit of a rollercoaster, but I am near honey bound in three of my double deep hives. I haven't had a lot of luck getting them to draw out mediums until now. I have more frames on order at the moment.

VanceG, I really like the idea of a used extractor. I've had limited luck on Craigslist so far. I haven't dove fully into the search yet though.

Gray Goose, I think what you've listed is extremely practical. The work is most likely going to occur in my garage. I am looking at a Maxant 4 frame radial. $1,200 there abouts, but they are +6 weeks delivery at the moment. I'm planning on driving up to a bee supply company north of me tomorrow to see what they have in stock. A regular knife and comb are on my shopping list.

WesterfeldBeeFarm, I'm 40 now. Cranking isn't a problem. But there is a decent chance I may still be doing this in 20 years. I mentioned the Maxant 4 frame model, they have a 9 frame model that is a little more, but definitively better than $5k.

HTB, I'll add a rail car spur to that list also. I will see if CSX can swing it.

Thank you all again!
 
#14 · (Edited)
GregB, I am going on year four. Admitted it's a bit of a rollercoaster, but I am near honey bound in three of my double deep hives. I haven't had a lot of luck getting them to draw out mediums until now. I have more frames on order at the moment.
Good for you; I was not aware.

Being honey bound is not a basis for profitable honey sales. :)

Do you know your local honey sales legislature (on top of the market conditions)?
If not, better study that too.
I see not a single question in that regard in your post.

Correction - you did ask:
What is involved in selling honey, small scale, local, legitimately? Inspection? LLC? Taxes?

But why are you asking here about your local legal issues?
You should be the local expert in your local regulation.

In my case, just one single rule makes my decision a very simple "no" decision - the requirement to have a dedicated honey-room :rolleyes: (extraction in your kitchen is illegal).
Whether or not you require a license, if you’re going to sell your honey, you must have a separate room dedicated to your food business with commercial-grade equipment.
Too much expense and hassle just for that.
Better find out such nuances before hand.
 
#18 ·
****. We can sell up to $50,000 a year in Florida under cottage industry law but can't sell it through a third party. A commercial beekeeper I met at the supply house told me they increased that amount but I haven't found anything to back that up yet.
Basically just shows - before jumping into the honey extraction purchases, one need to know their local laws and regulations first.
This should be the first question.
Not the other way around.
 
#22 ·
I say they are your bees, your money, and your goals, so good for you.

I still use my hand crank extractor I bought from Amazon. It has worked great and we make it a family event and really enjoy the whole process. We freeze our honey supers for a few days, then thaw them, then put them in my truck the day of extraction to heat them up for extraction. Takes a little planning but always works out. We also just use a serrated bread knife to uncap. We have a 6 gallon bucket with a honey gate we use to bottle. Not exactly sure where ur pounds but last year we had just over 6 x 5 gallon buckets. We sell to family and friends and could sell twice what we get.

my best advice is only keep the number of hives you can afford to take care of and still enjoy.

good luck and have fun.
 
#26 ·
I bought my 1st one through Walmart so I could add an extended warrety. Here is 1st review on the extractor.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/VIVO-New...eel-Honey-Extractor-Model-BEE-V004E/155944869


I ordered the Vivo extractor on Tuesday, May 30th via the Wal-Mart website, did that so I could add on their extended warranty, and received the extractor Friday, June 2nd. So customer service regarding shipping was outstanding. The extractor was double boxed, heavily packed and was in perfect condition – but that is how a new product should arrive so no extra points there. All accessories; legs, lids, instruction, screws, nuts and bolts were included, packaged and ready to use.

Completed installation of legs and cover was made in about 30 minutes and the only tools needed were a Phillips screwdriver and a 5/8” wrench. Plugged the extractor in and it worked as it should, the motor is quite, smooth, and ran well at all speeds. Cleaned the machine and had 4 frames ready to try in the extractor which spun flawless. The barrel or drum is heavy, smooth, and should last for years.

The one Con I found was trying to attach the honey gate. I have small arms and was able to reach wayyyyyyy down with the “nut” while my Dad screwed in the gate. Not sure someone could hold the nut in place and reach down to screw in the gate at the same time. Also if your arms were very large you would have to remove the frame, motor, and cage in order to attach the honey gate to the drum. Other Pros and upgrades with the extractor are that the legs are longer and have been beefed-up and will allow a five gallon bucket to be placed under the honey gate. Also there have now been braces added to the inside of the drum so that the frames will not fall or slide once placed in the cage.
 
#28 ·
I'm a small, low-budget operator. I have gone from 2 hives to 9. In my area, you can expect a 5 gallon bucket from each hive, but you may get a lot more. This seems like a "lot more" year, but we will see.

I don't have any of the stuff listed above. I bought a 2-frame hand crank extractor off amazon for $39 last year. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0816S9WQL/ Works great!

I extract one or two supers at a time. Once a super gets 90% capped, I pull it. I shave the caps off 2 frames, drop in the spinner and crank the handle for a few minutes. Swap and repeat. Open the gate into a clean bucket with a sieve over it, and put the super right back on the hive. Done.

This takes maybe 15 mins while watching the news. I leave the extractor next to my desk in the house, ready for the next super whenever. Really simple, not a big deal.

As far as sales, I sell for about what the local supermarket sells it for. A good deal for fresh local honey, and I recoup my equipment and sugar costs. Hobbies that pay for themselves are rare!
 
#29 ·
GregB, I asked here to get a general understanding. I know laws vary state to state. This isn't a topic that has come up at our local bee club, but I will ask next time.

msl, Good catch. I listed the wrong information. It is the 9 frame unit is what I am considering.

31157, I attempted to drain a single deep frame into a pot. It was a sticky mess. I still have cleaning in my kitchen to do. I didn't research much into methods thought.

Haveyouseen1? That is my basic goal at this point. I am very comfortable with (5) hives. I don't think I would want more than (10) at my current residence.

ffrtstaxk, I hadn't considered that.

EnormousPatio, I've got a pretty good filter through which I process other peoples' advice. And even the bad advice, well I don't mind too much trying to see it from their line of thought. I am glad to hear a practical point of view from you for sure.

Groundhwg, I never would have thought to check Wal-Mart. I did see that model on Amazon I believe. How well has it worked for you so far?

thill, That one is listed as unavailable, and the next cheapest is $170 on Amazon. If I went that route, the money I saved verses the Maxant or similar model could always fund a couple more hives. The rest of the post was good pratical information. Exactly what I was looking for!
 
#30 ·
Groundhwg, I never would have thought to check Wal-Mart. I did see that model on Amazon I believe. How well has it worked for you so far?
QUOTE


My review after using the extractor. I do not keep the gate close and since the extractor is mounted to the plywood base and sitting on the "crawler" a bucket sitting on the plywood base moves with the extractor. What little it moves. Having it on that "crawler" allows it to move but not shake apart or "walk" across the floor. Over all I was please enough to buy 2 of them but one will likle meet all of you needs for several hives. Good luck. Greg

First plus over the 4 frame manual was it is radial verses tangential so of course much faster just by design then add that it hold 8 frames and our first extractor held 4 frames. Easy to operate, very quiet motor even at the highest speed and does not seem to build any heat. By the time I can remove capping from second 8 frames the batch spinning is done or close to it. Have not timed it but about 10 minutes at low then slowly increasing speed to about Âľ of max and the frames are clean.

Second is that the inside cage sit high enough above the spun honey that you can extract 4 gallons plus before opening the gate. I mounted mine to a ½ inch piece of plywood which is 20 X 30 inches. Purchased a small dolly and just lift and place extractor on the dolly. When starting at low speed then increasing until the extractor starts to “shake a bit” then backing off just a bit then after a couple of minutes increase again. Would say 1/4 speed for 2 minutes, then ½ of max speed for 5 or 6 minutes and ending at ¾ of max speed for a couple of minutes.

Using the dolly allows the extractor to “give” enough that it does not dance or need 2 fellows to hold it down like out old one did when turning at high speed. It just seems to vibrate with more “give” up and down than trying to walk across the floor. Third feature I like is the couture of the bottom and placement of the honey gate. Just opening the gate will remove most of the honey then I place a short piece of 2x4 on end (raising the side close to 4 inches) gets all but about 1/3 to ½ a gallon. Then remove the 5 gallon bucket and tilt the extractor way over draining into a shallow pan allows all but less than ½ a pound on honey to be removed. That I just wash out when cleaning the machine.

Knowing what I know now I would buy the same extractor again if I was shopping and would recommend to a close friend if I knew someone who needed one. For our 7 hives it will make easy work of extracting honey. We have extracted 3 times this year and each time doing 3 or 4 eight frames suppers in less than 2 hours from start to end.

I bought mine through Wal-Mart. You can go to their website, ask for honey extractors, and find it listed from several places. Used the Wal-Mart site so I could receive free shipping and also purchased the extended warranty so mine is covered for 3 years by paying only $33.00 dollars “insurance”.
 
#31 ·
Sorry about the bad link! I just copied from my purchase history.

I see one similar to mine for $99: https://www.amazon.com/Happybuy-Manual-Honey-Extractor-Stainless/dp/B012C6FHGQ/

But I would probably go for this 2/4 frame extractor for $115: https://www.amazon.com/DNYSYSJ-Stainless-Beekeeping-Extraction-Centrifuge/dp/B08NJPBZGD/ Double the frames for $15 more sounds worth it to me.

And I see and electric 2-frame machines if you prefer for $199.99: https://www.amazon.com/VINGLI-Adjustable-Beekeeping-Extraction-Centrifuge/dp/B088BPZB7S/

Hopefully, you get one that is reliable. Might be a good thing to get an extended warranty on.
 
#32 ·
#33 ·
for the price a good starter unit.
for 15 years we did cut and strain, on 4 to 8 hives went ok, but now that I extract I like the comb for early and late flow, when they do not like to build comb.
ya at 20 a quart, 320 is only like 4 supers of honey.

let us know how it works, I may get a little one for spring or small batch extracting where I wish to not get the big one out.

GG
 
#36 ·
I am not looking to make this a full time job, but it would be attractive if it could pay for itself.
I took the exact opposite strategy. We did not 'guess' if a piece of equipment could pay itself back from honey sales. We used borrowed club extractors early on, saved money from honey sales, purchased bee equipment with that money.

When we moved from an in town to an in the country location, we spent a small amount of 'our own money' to scale up from 6 to 25 colonies. From there forward, every piece of equipment we purchased was done so with money that came in from sales of bee products. We didn't buy anything anticipating 'maybe we will need it'. What we did, was borrow club extractors, and just go to work doing bee related work 'the hard manual way' until we started commenting 'gosh, we really need to buy {insert name of equipment here}, then look at our bee money kitty and figure out what we had the money to purchase. Original plan was to spend 5 years rolling every cent of bee revenue back into equipment until we had everything we neeeded. Best laid plans never work out exactly as planned, we ended up rolling it all back for 6 years.

Today we are properly set up to handle 50 colonies. Our honey shed (built from honey revenue) has a warm room that'll comfortably hold 50 supers full of honey stacked below shoulder hight. For winter storage it can hold 100 stacked to the ceiling. The main room has an uncapping table, 9/18 extractor, and a nassenheider bottling pump. We have boxes for 25 double deep colonies and a dozen nucs, with more than enough honey supers with drawn out comb, we can split 25 and super all the splits if we want. I have enough mating nucs to have 30+ queens in mating nucs.

We are well set up now, it's a viable sideline operation, and it's all be paid for from the revenue out of honey sales. Aside from the initial cash injection to scale up colony numbers in the spring of 2014, we didn't spend a dime if it was not coming out of the honey revenue piggy bank.

the interesting thing I find today, when we started it was like a challenge, can we build a viable bee business by investing mostly 'sweat equity', and we accomplished that. At the same time we got considerably older over the years. I'm not as keen to do all the heavy lifting anymore, and have started scaling back rather than up, just dont want to work so hard anymore.
 
#37 ·
I will be pulling honey from 5 of my hives(I have 13). I couldn't really justify the cost of an extractor
but I bought one anyway. From my estimates I will be pulling at least 8 supers maybe more. I hand cranked
last yearbut this year I am going to use a hilco minimax. It holds 9 mediums .I bought it for 859.00 and it has a good waranty.
 
#39 ·
Grozzie, I think that is a very smart way to operate, not starting out in debt.

I have taken a similar approach. And that is the dilemma... I have enough "bee money" to buy the extractor, but it would have been my first profits from honey. I don't NEED a bigger extractor, and it would eat up most of my profit for this year, but it would be nice.

My wife suggests that I wait and see if any of the extractors goes on sale over the winter, like the hand-crank that I currently have. That seems pretty smart. She usually gives me excellent suggestions.
 
#41 ·
Here is the link to the Vivo: https://www.amazon.com/VIVO-Stainless-Extractor-Honeycomb-BEE-V004E/dp/B00SNEZVVI/

It turns out, you may be able to actually spin 12 frames at a time - 8 radially, and 4 tangentially: If you can put 3 in each of the 4 bays, that would be sweet.
Image


I asked about this in the question section, and some said yes, and others said, that it might damage the motor. But the seller shows the pic with all three in there at the same time, and has not responded yet, so the jury is still out.
 
#45 ·
I got the manual crank version of that Vivo extractor and actually just used it for the first time this past weekend. When I got it and put it together I noticed that the basket was welded with the wire way off center so that I couldn't fit all 8 frames. Props to their customer service as they sent me a replacement promptly. The replacement was poorly welded as well, but it good enough so I could still fit the frames. The whole thing needed a very thorough cleaning as well. It was covered in a thin black soot, presumably from welding. I can't really complain as it works and is half the price of an actual quality brand name extractor.

That said, I ended up extracting tangentially because I didn't bolt the thing down and it moved around a heck of a lot trying to get it spinning fast enough for radial extraction. I didn't have enough frames to extract to get it very well balanced. I'll attach it to a heavy wood base before I use it next year (when I hope to have a better flow into my increasing number of drawn supers to extract). Medium frames fit awkwardly in that basket for radial extraction and I had to lay them diagonally a bit, but it worked ok. My 4 year old daughter was thrilled to crank the thing. It has a very simple gear box so when the thing is spinning pretty fast the handle can be a bit of a hazard for kids though.
 
#52 ·
If you are in North Georgia, I would be willing to bet that you have a good honey room nearby, and you could use it for a couple of years while you figure out what you want and need. A club, another beek, or a sideliner would let you use their stuff for a fee or trade.

Try before you buy, especially where there are more extractors per capita than just about any place else in America!