[Yunzow]

This is kind of what I am getting at. To me it seems that absconding implies that the bees are doing something wrong. I was just curious what the biological term would be for when bees in nature might do this. Someone mentioned this is rare in nature, but I can imagine some situations where this would occur naturally.

well back to the thread...
Abscond is in general, when you go out to the hive after who knows how long could be a few days or a few months, and Viola, the bees are gone.
As most keepers cannot fathom they did something wrong, the presumption is the bees just up and left.

the actual happenings and the timing can be several reasons, or different things.

GG

 

[JWPalmer]

I have only had one instance where I could not trace an empty hive back to something I did or did not do. I am pretty sure that PPB was the still the cause, just not clear as to which aspect. Absconding is a really nice way of saying died, unless we are talking about a colony that has not yet established itself. So the question is not so much "why did my bees leave' as much as 'how did I kill them".

 

[JTGaraas]

The term “hatch” or “born” are not accurate, so I always used the term “emerge” to describe the arrival of a fully developed bee after the pupa stage. Only recently I learned the correct term is “eclose”. I doubt it will ever achieve widespread use, but it is nice to have descriptive terms recognized by all.

 

[JWPalmer]

Eclose. intransitive verb. [no object]Entomology. (of an insect) emerge as an adult from the pupa or as a larva from the egg. 'some larvae pupated and eclosed substantially earlier than average'

I feel smarter already. Thanks for the info. Whether we start using it or not remains to be seen.

 

[Yunzow]

FYI I was a literature major, that is probably why I like to think about the words we use. I'm also a non-conformist, so I seldom do things just because everyone else says so.

For example, whenever people ask me how to questions about beekeeping I usually say something like, well I can explain to you how it is done by 99% of beekeepers, but I actually don't do it that way....

 

[Trin]

While I was not a literature major, I grew up reading a lot of books and no TV.
Later, working in engineering I had a war of words going with another engineer- Great fun!! the objective was to insult the other with words requiring them to go get a dictionary. My co-worker later declared me the winner when I called him "pusillanimous dreck". Simple language meaning; Lacking courage; cowardly.
Lacking strength and firmness of mind; wanting in courage and fortitude; being of weak courage; faint-hearted; mean-spirited; cowardly, and trash or dung.

This co-worker/friend was actually very bright and not at all what I called him. The war of words was just a thing to brighten our day. I am not trying to fuss over word meanings here particularly, just trying to get some clarity for communication purposes. Certainly fuming, vaporizing, sublimation, mean generally the same thing.

Back to absconding.....I wonder about a hive that swarms, and with several swarm cells, re-swarms, perhaps weakening the hive. Do the bees maybe chew out some honey cells to load up before swarming? Could this trigger a robbing event because the hive is weakened? Could this hive then die out as a result? The bees reason for absconding is probably a diversified set of conditions. I would guess the majority can be squarely laid at the feet of the BK's management practices.

I really appreciate y'all.

 

[JConnolly]

Even though the term abscond is used, bees don't actually take off in mass for a new hive unless they are swarming. In a swarm a large part of the population will remain behind along with the queen cells. In the literal sense of absconding, where the bees up and move to new digs, packages and freshly caught swarms will abscond, but not an established colony. When an established colony collapses we may say it absconded, but the collapse is a true collapse, usually due to disease, usually disease that was spread by varroa. Varroa infect the pupae, so the emerging bees are infected, and soon most of the hive is infected. One of the defense mechanisms bees have evolved is that sick bees leave the hive and fly off rather than spread the disease to the community. Some of the common viruses also affect the bees cognition, in which case an ever increasing number of them fail to find their way back home. The colony population rapidly depletes over a couple of days until there aren't enough bees left to sustain the hive and it collapses. The beekeeper who checks periodically doesn't notice anything is wrong at first until it seems to him as if the hive is suddenly empty, even though the bees did not just get up and move to a new home, instead they flew off and died because they were sick.

 

[JConnolly]

"vapourisation"

Our favourite, ouriginal and genuine United Kingdoum beekeepour. :lpf:

 

[crofter]

Hey Frank,

what is it that Africanized bees do? Do you mind explaining?

thanks,
Thomas

It has been my impression that africanized bees tend to swarm off at fairly small colony size; also commonly usurp another colony. Apis ceranae is a quick swarmer too.

In both those cases there should be evidence that they swarmed though rather than absconded. If there are multiple afterswarms or left behind capped queen cell fails to produce a mated queen, then quite a bit of time can elapse and evidence removed that might establish if it was dwindling that occurred not an absconding where every bee that can fly disappears at once.

There are a whole lot of areas of beekeeping in the south that I have never experienced; hive melt downs, dearth starvation, small hive beetle, wax moths, etc., but in the 8 years or so I have been haunting the forum I dont remember the discussions where absconding was well supported. Most common seemed to involve a colony that had been hands off and not inspected for a very long time. Entrance traffic was noted as a sign of healthy activity that was really scavenger bees. When there was nothing left to steal they left too and the owner claimed his bees must have absconded.

This is way oversimplification but I would be interested in seeing some instances put forth for the forum to dissect.

 

[Yunzow]

Thanks for the answer... which brings up another question for me! You mention bees usurping another colony.
I think I may have read about this somewhere or the other. What would that look like?

It has been my impression that africanized bees tend to swarm off at fairly small colony size; also commonly usurp another colony. Apis ceranae is a quick swarmer too.

In both those cases there should be evidence that they swarmed though rather than absconded. If there are multiple afterswarms or left behind capped queen cell fails to produce a mated queen, then quite a bit of time can elapse and evidence removed that might establish if it was dwindling that occurred not an absconding where every bee that can fly disappears at once.

There are a whole lot of areas of beekeeping in the south that I have never experienced; hive melt downs, dearth starvation, small hive beetle, wax moths, etc., but in the 8 years or so I have been haunting the forum I dont remember the discussions where absconding was well supported. Most common seemed to involve a colony that had been hands off and not inspected for a very long time. Entrance traffic was noted as a sign of healthy activity that was really scavenger bees. When there was nothing left to steal they left too and the owner claimed his bees must have absconded.

This is way oversimplification but I would be interested in seeing some instances put forth for the forum to dissect.

 

[crofter]

Thanks for the answer... which brings up another question for me! You mention bees usurping another colony.
I think I may have read about this somewhere or the other. What would that look like?

I have only read about it too. They know they would have to quarantine if they got across the border into Canada, so I think that any that do keep a pretty low profile.

 

[JWPalmer]

No AHB here either so pure speculation. But I would bet it would look like the hive got meaner, lots of dead bees on the bottom board, and more bees than you remember in the hive. Do not know if they rwmove the larvae of the usurped hive. Maybe someone else knows?

 

[Gray Goose]

As to the Usurp.
I have seen 2 instances, not in real time just the results.
Several years ago I did a "walk away " split, as it turned out the queen was at the old location and there was a fairly big drift back (50% ish)
I found Q cells and a smallish split 9 days after the split, maybe 4 frames of bees. I added a super as I was thre had one left and the circumstance had the space in my car used for something else on the way back home.
forward 15 days, i go back to verify a queen hatched and do a check, and I see bearding. I do the WTH and proceed to open and check. Hive is full of bees and needs space and has brood being sealed, So 3 or 4 days post my visit a swarm moved in.

Next was I think a 1 off. Had a couple hives with queen that were almost black sold as Russian Hybrids, 2012 ish I had caught a swarm with a older looking gold colored Italian Queen. One day I open this hive and the golden queen is gone and a young Virgin "Black" queen is running around, later started laying and was a good queen.
I thought this odd, Untill 3 hive later I open one of the Black queen hive to find 3 supercedure cells opened. That queen was not originally marked.
I at that point assumed the returning Virgin "got lost" made it into the other hive, or was chased out by another and just joined, eventually taking over the hive.

In Both cases I only seen the results after a few days.

SO IMO scouts for a swarm would consider a week / Queen less hive as a HOME, only need to over come the current owners and move in.
And should a hive allow a virgin in they may soome have her as the Queen. I would think it somewhat the same as tossing a virgin in.

GG

 

[Meghues]

Usurpation: I had a small colony earlier this year, from a small split I made. They were fine, but hadn’t built up yet. Still in the bottom box.
One day I heard a roar in the bee yard and went out to investigate. It looked like a herd of robbers attacking this hive, so I went to get some equipment. By the time I got back, it was clear that this was not robbers-there were tons of bees plastered all over the front of the hive-a swarm! They were fanning around the opening and lots more bees were landing out of the air and funneling into the hive.
The funny thing was that many of these new bees arrived carrying pollen. And they kept bringing in pollen for days, way more than the surrounding hives.
The next day I put another box on and checked things out. Everything looked good, tons of bees, and the hive has built up very nicely this summer.