I hope you get some queens out of them bees!

 

>I am befuddled, awestruck, humbled and amazed. Comments?

That's because you bought the propaganda that bees can't survive on their own. I find and hear of feral surviving bees all the time.

 

That's because you bought the propaganda that bees can't survive on their own.

An interesting choice of words. Can you name someone who has spread this 'propaganda'?

 

I got one of those hives a couple of years ago. They may not have survived all that yours did but they surely were survivors. Fellow said his son used to keep bees. The son had long ago grown up and moved away. He left his hive. It hadn't been touched in years. It was rotting apart and the dad was afraid that it might not survive the upcoming winter. Did I want it? I went and it was so bad that I moved the bees into a new box the first day....their old hive would never have made the trip and there was no way to contain the bees. The frames were falling apart. The wax black as coal. I returned the next day and took them home. They've been a mean bunch but otherwise do a good job. They do have varroa and shb but so far survive without any help....
This is a photo of the box.....

http://boogerhillbee.com/rottenhive.jpg

 

I have a friend whos about 50.he says the bees have been in the wall of his house his whole life.in the late 70s had a fire on the top floor.got so hot the wax melted and honey ran through the wall.still the bees lived on and are still there.

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Dwayne.S -({{{8-
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get some pics please, thats wild

 

I just wonder if it's the same line of bees, or if swarms keep moving in to the nice empty locale.

 

Oh boy, now that you give them all new equipment and remove all the burr comb and such, they might not survive another season. Bees that are left alone seem to do well, the more we mess with them the more problems they have. At least, I do see signs of this over the years. The bees that need constant tending aren't so strong on their own. Natural selection and all. I think that removing the burrcomb between the levels of the stacked boxes is actually hurting the bees, not helping. I think they prefer solid combs up and down, the gap between stories cause drafts and areas the bees cannot cluster for warmth in.

 

Flint may have the answer. Quite a few years ago, I got tired of dealing with mites, etc. so I just let nature take its course. All of my hives (3 hives at the time) died in the fall.

The strange thing was that there always appeared to be honey bees in the hives. There are other beekeepers within a mile or two of these hives. On any sunny day in the winter or fall, there would be bees flying into and out of the entrance. If I pulled the lid I could see that there were just scavengers. Each spring swarms would show up and I would have bees for a few months until they died out and this cycle went on for about 6 years.

At that time I got interested in the bees again and now have been keeping bees for about 8 years since. For six years it looked like there were constantly bees in those hives. Without pulling the lid you would never know that there were six different groups of bees in each hive. I had to pull the lid to see the real facts.

Wax moths did get into the hives each years, but each spring the swarms would clean it all out and rebuild wax. This was 1994-2000. I had been keeping bees for 10 years before that and as I said it looked to me like I constantly had bees in the hives.

So when people tell me about bee trees with bee in them for 10 years I just smile. It might be true, but it might also be like my hives.

 

That would probably be my guess.

To the guy that says bees have lived in his walls his whole life, they probably have, but not the same bees. If the fire melted the wax, then the bees died. No question about that. I left an OH in the sun one day on accident, the heat killed all of the bees, but it wasn't enough to melt the wax (not yet at least, certainly was very pliable). If the fire melted the wax, it killed the bees. But the smells were in the wood so I'm sure that new bees moved in.

 

>An interesting choice of words. Can you name someone who has spread this 'propaganda'?

Read the bee magazines and bee books for the last ten years. Then talk to people who are taking bees out of houses and trees and picking up swarms.

Now, finally the scientists are now starting to admit there are feral bees surviving. Tom Seeley has even done some studies on them.

 

>An interesting choice of words. Can you name someone who has spread this 'propaganda'?

Read the bee magazines and bee books for the last ten years.

So, you are unable to name one?

 

I don't think there is any benefit to naming a name. All you have to do is listen, and you will realize that the general prevailing attitude among humans is that a) the wild bees are all dying, and b) as a beekeeper, one needs to treat for varroa, nosema, and other diseases, and one must feed their bees.

In my opinion, both of these imply a feeling that bees need human help to survive. It's not like some individual is passing out pamphlets. It is the general tone created by many, many things we have heard, read, and perhaps even said.

 

It's not like some individual is passing out pamphlets. It is the general tone created by many, many things we have heard, read, and perhaps even said.

I agree with you, Hobie. There is a general sense among many beekeepers that they must treat their bees for them to survive. I, for one, disagree, but that isn't the point.

MB is a pretty bright guy, I'm sure you'll agree. He is articulate and surely chooses his words. If he'd used the term 'notion' or 'belief', then that would fit our sense of the issue.

Michael Bush chose the word 'propaganda'.
And when I challenged him on it he directed me to the many articles on the subject. By doing so, he implied that the authors of those many articles were intentionally spreading information or misinformation to further their own causes or damage someone else's. I was hoping that he would narrow it down to one individual rather than paint the entire group with the same accusatory brush.

 

bbt writes:
Flint may have the answer.

tecumseh:
it sounded more like a question to me?

summer writes:
NO SHB(!!)..................... NO fireants (!!!)

tecumseh:
how much do they want for this jewel and where can I pick it up?

 

>I'm not asking about feral bees.

But I am.

>You apparently didn't read my posts. I'm asking Michael Bush to name one person who has spread the 'propaganda' that he described. Michael Bush surely knows that his claim that anyone in legitimate research is spreading propaganda is a serious accusation.

I was not making a serious accusation of intent or I would not have put a smiley face at the end.

I see no reason to name names, since I can't speak for the specific motivation for any particular individual who has made this claim, perhaps some believe it, but I have heard it repeated in magazine articles and presentations by many. Since it obviously, by my experience and many who I have been corresponding with, was not and still is not true what do you think are their reasons for perpetuating this falsehood? I don't know what their reasons are. But when the media presented consensus of an idea disagrees with what I know to be the truth, I think of propaganda.

 

Since it obviously, by my experience and many who I have been corresponding with, was not and still is not true what do you think are their reasons for perpetuating this falsehood? I don't know what their reasons are. But when the media presented consensus of an idea disagrees with what I know to be the truth, I think of propaganda.

My apologies. I’m going to find my dictionary and scratch through the definition of propaganda. I’ll replace it with a new one. Let me know if this is correct.

Propaganda – Information that runs counter to anything that Michael Bush believes.

I was not making a serious accusation of intent or I would not have put a smiley face at the end.

Yes…the smiley face cures all.

>I'm not asking about feral bees.

But I am.

In part. You are also taking a poorly veiled jab at any researcher who delivers results that don’t fit your view.

 

A little more on topic. Years ago I could walk through the forests around my home and there were always feral bee colonies. During the late 1990s I couldn't find any. I wouldn’t say they were nonexistent, I’d just say they were rare.
I sell honey at a local farmer’s market. A steady stream of old farmers have stopped by and asked why they never see honey bees in their gardens anymore. This was going on long before there was any media attention to the plight of honey bees.
Michael Bush, your experience and that of the people you talk to couldn’t be any more opposite of mine and that of the people that I talk with. Yet I’ve never suggested that you were being untruthful or spreading propaganda.
To the original poster, summer1052, your bees are, in my opinion, an awesome bunch.

 

I haven't lived in TX for the last 10 years, so I rely on people who have to tell me what they have experienced. And based on the calls I have received in the last year, swarms and feral bees (sightings) have been few and far between. Everyone not a beekeeper who has either: 1.) called about a swarm; or 2.) found out I am a beek; have commented on the lack of bees in the gardens, local beeks, etc. That's been upwards of 50 people in the last year.

There was a time here in Tejas, and not so very long ago, that people were routinely advised (perhaps sometimes incorrectly, or inappropriately) to destroy all swarms and feral hives for fear of africanization. This does not seem to have helped boost the wild population. :doh: People are starting to realize that they may not need to destroy a hive if it is wild, only if it is (really really) hot (and therefore likely to be africanized.) :lookout:

As for propganda and pravda, yes, as a new beek, I have read everything I can get my hands on, from mags, to books, to videos, to Beesource dot com. I have also been talking to beeks where ever I find them. I am learning to sift fact, opinion, trends, snake oil, stupidity, and dumb luck from truth and pravda. :no:

I never thought wild bees were extinct, just rare. And I have also discovered from personal experience and learning efforts that the <deleted> fireants have noticably reduced the local popluations of:
Copperheads
Scorpions
Quail and partridge
Meadowlarks
Earthworms
Bees
Ground wasps/hornets
and most anything else nesting in, on, or near the ground.
I have personally seen them cause a hive to abscond within 4 days. Wax moths and SHB seem to be more problematic around here than varrora.
Finding a hive that seems to have resisted many/most/all/some of these pests is a revelation to me. Which is why I posted here to get feedback and opinion.

Thanks to all commentators, and MB for helping a new beek to learn, and to remind me to not take anything without a grain of salt. I also appreciate the encouragement to try to acquire some genetics from this group of ladies.

I will keep you posted.
Summer

 

Well here in L A the feral bees are Flourishing like Mad.Thats all I have is Feral Bees.Are they Africanized Hek who knows who cares.The Question should be are they MEAN.I had one hive the last 5 years that was to MEAN to manage.Did I kill them NO I made three hives out of one Mean Hive .Found the queen squish they made new queen everyone calmed down.I got this Idea on Michael Bush's website.I used to by bees they were sickly the queens were Duds no good .I trap out and catch swarms all feral.They are the best Bees they are more Diverse also.I also do foundationless frames no foundation.I don't treat for anything I don't medicate for anything.Beekeeping is fun for me now like in the 70's.I read in 2000 that Feral bees had all died I found that Not the case in LOS Angeles.The wild bees are out there You'll find them
kirk