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And if you think there is no danger to your operation, think about some people's equipment being brought in from an unknown origin, a nuc box perhaps laced with some old comb as bait, and your bees visiting.

I have a breeding operation and do not need other bringing thier potential AFB equipment, and targeting my livelihood, all due to a swarm.

I agree with Joe. Its hard to believe some of the effort some spend in capturing unknown genetics, unknown deseases, and unknown bad will from the so-called beekeeeping community.
 

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I am constantly amazed at all the bad will and hatred that so readily pops up from lack of communication. Just a few minutes talking with the beek would most likely obtain an invite to set your traps, and maybe even someone to call you when one is inhabited. I would not hesitate to ask, fully expecting a welcome, but would never set one without talking first. It's the only decent thing to do.
 

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I'd be the first to get the guy a ladder and help him put up the trap.

Over the years, I've caught literally dozens of swarms that did not originate from my bees. Most were feral, but some very obviously were not. I didn't question the source of the swarms when I caught them, why should I question someone else for trying to catch a swarm. On the other hand, I have never knowingly located a swarm trap near someone elses bees.

Darrel Jones
 

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I kinda find it hard to believe this is an issue for beeks. If my bees swarm.....tough luck on my part. Once they swarm onto someone else's property they are not my bees anymore. Catch them, kill them, do what you want. If you are willing to stake claims to them, then maybe you should be willing to pay for any damages they might cause if they locate in someone's wall. But if that was the case I am sure they would be "ferals" and not from your hives. Then how do you know they are yours if the make it to the swarm trap? So if we are willing to claim swarms as our own for our own gain, we should be willing to claim them when they are a nuisance.
 

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>>>And if you think there is no danger to your operation, think about some people's equipment being brought in from an unknown origin<<<

I see this as a different, if related, issue. I can certainly understand this as we have had migrators just plop a semi of bees down within 1/4 mile of our then permanent yards. We didn't like this one bit. Not only were our bees exposed to whatever those bees had, they competed for forage with ours. As we expanded into migration ourselves, contact with foreign bees was a given.

Now I figure it is a rare location indeed that doesn't come into some contact with migrating bees, and/or hobbyist bees. Indeed, our bees mix with thousands of other colonies in California. In addition, we live in a rural location and it amazes me the folks that keep a hive or two of bees, often replacing them every year as they die off, getting the replacements from various sources and suppliers, and yes, probably some of our swarms :cool:. Some haven't a clue what a healthy colony should look like. Maybe some of them blame our migrating bees for their inability to keep their hives alive. It is easy to blame the bees from an unknown origin, when they should be looking at their own management practices.

If you are in an isolated location, trying to protect your bees from outside contaminants and/or genetics may be a difficult cause but I suppose one worth fighting if there is a reasonable chance of success. Seems like it would be a more and more difficult thing to do.

Having said all that, I agree with those who can't understand why one would go to such effort, in such an organized way, to capture swarms of unknown origins. Seems to me it might be easier to advertise that you will do swarm removal. Bet you get better results and generate much more good will in this manner. If I wanted to set traps near a beekeeper, I'd notify them of my intentions, make sure they didn't have their own traps set, make sure they were OK with it. If they were not OK with it, I wouldn't be either.
Sheri
 

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It's funny what a little conversation can do. I mentioned to a friend of mine who keeps a couple hundred hives that I was going to set some traps out in the forest around my area and he invited me to put two or three in his yard. He said at least two swarms a year settle there. I didn't take advantage of the offer because my goal is to find "feral" bees that have a few generations of living on their own.
 

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Sheri, I agree with what you said. It is difficult to isolate a breeding yard with no outside influences. With that said, there are some things I do.

One..know the beekeepers around you. I worked with the inspector when I first started, and found out who had bees near my yards. I did this also by being involved with the local clubs and asking questions. It also pays to be a good nieghbor. I am rather certain that one of my yards is isolated from another beekeeper of at least two miles. The other main yard has two beekeeepers within a mile. One has 20 hives, and the other has 6.

Two...make sure they have the genetics that you desire. I can't make them go away, but I can offer queens, market my own, and influence what genetics they have in thier yards. My bees afterall probably mate with some bees from these hives, no matter how many drone colonies I establish.

three...Make sure they are registered and inspected. Both of my close nieghbors were already registered. I just needed to make sure they were inspected. Not hard to do. ;) I no doubt know who the next inspector will be for my area, as I helped recruit him. Another.... ;) I think asking that he inspect yearly these other locations would be no big deal, and I'll probably ride along for the fun.. ;)

Its not hard to control your genetics, know your nieghbors, and have a game plan. Thats why the thought of some guy from across the county that I have no clue about, targets my apairy with swarm boxes, and potential old comb as bait, and does not advise me of his intentions, I could have a bug up my butt. It is mentioned in many books and many converstaions here on beesoucre, about using old comb as bait. I don't want anyones old comb anywhere near my operation. Period.
 

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"If you drive in from outside the area, I'll burn your traps."

For our new members, please do not take this as standard operating practice of beekeepers. Tresspassing and wanton destruction of another person's property is considered very bad form, winking icons notwithstanding.
 

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Yes, coyote, I guess we should assume that those reading these words don't understand that these conversations are each persons views, attitudes and "operating procedure". I assumed that people read the words for what they are, and just figured they knew not to cast it in stone as law or procedure for everyone to follow. Thank you for that much needed clarification.

But since your at it, its nice to also see that some do not display the gall and audacity in targeting other beekeepers beeyards. Thats not standard operating procedure either. But lets not focus on that. Lets focus on some sentence taken out of context, and not withstanding the little winkie.

I personally know my neighbors. They are called friends also. And if its not them placing the traps, as under the circumstances that I outlined earlier and detailed broader than one little sentence, taken out of context by coyote, then you can rest assure I will remove them. It could be considered abandoned equipment, placed by a tresspasser. Funny that I would be the one called the tresspasser in coyote's view. I don't think my nieghbors would call it that.

Perhaps some do not have the communcations skill, the nieghborly communications with those living around you, or the ability to actually strike up a conversation, even once a trap has been found. I know my nieghbors. They know what I do with bees. I look out for them, and they for me. I can rest assure that any traps found across the street would not be my nieghbors. They will be removed after contacting the landowner. They will be burned. It is not tresspassing, and it is not wanton destruction.
 

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Just to add a hypothetical twist to the discussion:

What about targeting drones of another beekeepers operation?

What if mating nucs were placed near to someone’s Apiary to mate with their drones, in affect, stealing the beekeepers hard work? Are free flying drones up for grabs also?
 

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I agree with MB. Its like someone fishing next to you. We have to be civil, I would go and put one next to his on the rightaway, if there is one, or put one in the direction of his that way of your bees swarm you have a chance of getting them first. But according to Walt if we practice good bee management we can prevent swarms.
 

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Again, and especially for the newbies...

Do not burn another man's property.

There's a reason beekeeping is called the gentle craft. I don't think you'll find the burning of someone's else's stuff recommended in the literature as a reasonable management practice. Find out what the situation is and then work it out. You don't want to burn out some kid who got all excited about trapping his or her first swarm and simply didn't understand the ground rules.
 

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"Another.... ;) I think asking that he inspect yearly these other locations would be no big deal, and I'll probably ride along for the fun.. ;) " -BjornBee

My bees are all registered with the state, and I've authorized inspectors to go ahead and check them. I have no problem with that. If another beekeeper showed up with an inspector, though, I'd resent it. Especially if I perceived that that other beekeeper might have some vested interested in how the inspection went.

I don't go along to oversee inspections on other beekeepers' hives, and I'd raise a stink about "conflicts of interest" if a state inspector brought another beekeeper along to an inspection of my hives, whether or not I got along with the other beekeeper.
 

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Kieck,
First, the state has a ride along program, as long as the owner of the apiary is notified and has no problem with it. Second, as I have already stated, I know these other beekeepers. They are my nieghbors, and I know them, and they know me. To assume ill-will, or some conflict of interest is wrong. These people see the inspection process as informative, educational, and worthwhile. One of things that I always do, is schedule it so the beekeeper can be present for the inspection. 95% of my inspections has the beekeeper present. Not becuase of mistrust or conflict of interest, but from a positive angle.

I could care less if another beekeeper was riding along with an inspector, and using the opportunity to learn something. I see no reason to be resentful as you state. My yards are open for all to see. Its part of my marketing and clearly states on promotional items, that anyone wanting to drop by is more than welcome. I have various groups, homeschoolers, individuals, etc., and even throw a yearly picnic that invites anyone who wants to attend. My beeyards are no big secret, and I have nothing to hide.

What would you assume, that would make you automatically resentful? (Beyond them not notifying you.) I did not consider that, but we do things perhaps differently here.
 

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BjornBee,

I am not able to decide if your posts were in jest, or serious. If serious, I ask how you would feel if your neighbor did the same things to your hives? Poisoning or sabotaging someone elses property is criminal. When bees swarm from your hives and leave your property, they are free and belong to no one. I chose to believe that you were only joking.
 

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Ron, Please read my posts in thier entirety. I have stated, that I would be more than happy to help a neighbor place swarm traps. I have stated that I would seek the identity of any swarm traps found. I stated that I look out for my neighbors, know them well, call them friends....and they do the same. This among many other statements.

The underlining basis for these discussions is "what do you feel about some guy coming in from out of the area, placing swarm traps without notifying anyone, targeting another beekeeper, and so on. This thread was based on this same logic. It did not say about asking the beekeeper being targeted, did not say whether permission was going to be sought to place traps on someone else's property, or any of the other good nieghbor things that I think would be best. In these type discussions, and most recently, comments of hanging them so nobody knows about them. Or painting them camo colors. Or some other means of doing it as they say "cheeky".

I have stated clearly, that an adjacent property owner has every right to place traps. I have no problem with that. I never said anything about burning my neighbors equipment. Except the "If I were to use my evil beekeeping powers" comment in response to John's comment, they are serious. That particular post was for comic value and I assumed that most would get it. Are you going to openly ask John about his comment of spraying a trap with bee-go? Or did you get that as "fun" and not to be taken serious, yet my pointed follow-up comment was to be considered serious. Hmm.

I'll state again, as this is the secenario asked by some from time to time. If I see swarm traps targeting my apiary, and after checking with my nieghbors it has been determined to be unauthorized traps on my or my neighbors property, they will be taken down. Perhaps I can elaborate a bit here.... If they are new, they are mine. If they contain old comb, they are burned. Why is that so hard to understand.

The scenario first given from Jeff was from the seeing traps "across the street, hanging in a tree". First I know who lives across the street. After letting my neighbor know, the traps would be history. If you don't know your neighbor that well, maybe you should try harder.

If these discussions started as "what do you think about approaching other beekeepers to ask permission to place traps' or "What do you think about asking property owners near beekeeping operations", then perhaps the conversation would go in a more clear route.

But I see most of these questions as someone making a bunch of traps, targeting other beekeepers, placing them on property they have no idea who owns, and somehow being sneaky about it. Jeff was not being sneaky, I'll give him that. But he said "deep down" he did not feel right targeting another beekeeper without them knowing. Jeff would be a good nieghbor. Jeff has that gut feeling. A feeling that comes about caring for others, and caring how other percieves one's self.
 

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"First, the state has a ride along program, as long as the owner of the apiary is notified and has no problem with it." -BjornBee

Ah, that puts a different spin on it. So far as I know, our state does not have a "ride-along program." If such a program does exist here, it's unofficial.

I read this statement that you made:

"Make sure they are registered and inspected. Both of my close nieghbors were already registered. I just needed to make sure they were inspected. Not hard to do. ;) " -BjornBee

and believed you were requesting inspections of your beekeeping neighbors. Now, if someone requests that my bees are inspected (as they have the right to do), and a state inspector shows up (as he may or may not do, depending on his judgement and schedule), and one of my beekeeping neighbors comes along, I'd begin wondering about conflicts of interest.

If someone -- especially someone from farther away -- were to show up as a "ride-along," and I believed he was learning about beekeeping or training to be an inspector, I'd feel differently.

But the idea that any other beekeeper could, in essence, show up to inspect my bees at any time bothers me. I've got nothing to hide, but I don't care for the idea that any other beekeeper could simply request that my colonies be inspected, then request a "ride-along," and wind up "inspecting" my colonies.
 

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>>>and believed you were requesting inspections of your beekeeping neighbors.

Kieck, I was not requesting inspections upon my neighbors. As a state bee inspector, I am doing my job. Nothing wrong with that. ;)
 
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