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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I kept bees in the early 70s as a teen when I retired I got back into keeping bees I watched the sustainable apiary and knew that's the way to go. Now it's package season again and I ask Why?
 

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Dan,
-Because they have not seen it (perhaps add it to your post)
-they would rather order.
-They do not feel they can be sustainable.
-Even if they try the bees all die so they need to order more.

GG
 

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Dan;
Are you referring specifically to Michael Palmer's example?

Regarding packages seen as the alternative, well you have to start somewhere..... and be able to keep them alive and thriving as a first move to sustainable. Some climates and local conditions often present quite a few challenges to making that happen.

Getting advice (and following it) from someone who really is doing it in very similar conditions is a good way to start.
 

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Not buying bees anymore is awesome, and it is my goal as a hobby beekeeper. I haven't bought a package or nuc in years. My hive count is pretty low and I live in an area with high winter losses so overall, its challenging and frustrating. One big thing that I was taught when I learned sustainable beekeeping was the introduction of different genetics into the yard is super important. So you either buy some bees (like queens) or you raise/mate new queens in other semi-far-away places. I think a lot of people don't do it because it requires beekeepers to take that extra step-up in understanding management and can be a lot of work when swarm/splitting season comes around.
 

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I've watched Micheal Palmers Sustainable Apiary lecture at least 4 or 5 times in the past 2 years...really, really excellent!
 

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The same question would apply to the writings and lectures of Brother Adam. And before him: Ferdinand Gerstung. Quite some quotes that are said to be from Brother Adam actually stem from Gerstung. Like: a queen must be born into paradise. That is a quote written in 1926 by Gerstung. Also the way Brother Adam made starters by collecting brood combs and boosting the starter to the point of swarming: that method also was described by Gerstung in his book 1926. Der Bien und seine Zucht.

I also found many many insights into good beekeeping practices in very old literature. So why all this knowledge out there just withers instead of being used? It is a shame, really.

Clipping wings of a queen for swarm prevention is described in a book by Nicol Jacobi, dating back to 1568.

Nothing new in beekeeping. Nothing new. The beekeeping community loses knowledge all the time. And re-invents, what others been through yonks ago.

Look at the hexagon frame that Charles Dadant fiddled around with, before he finally got back to a regular frame. All those thoughts are now re-thought again and hilarious invention hexagonal hives and frames are re-invented over and over again. And fail again.


We have the web/internet nowadays and all the information sticks in it. Still 99,9 % of the beekeepers make no use of it.

It is just like it is. But its a shame for sure.
 

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Like: Also the way Brother Adam made starters by collecting brood combs and boosting the starter to the point of swarming: that method also was described by Gerstung in his book 1926. Der Bien und seine Zucht.
I see his book is available, but in German. Is there an English version? I'd love to read it. I agree with you...nothing new in beekeeping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Have you ever tried trading queens or queen cells?
Yes in fact I offered to take one of his queens this morning that he thought was to pissy. I've been grafting and even giving queen away to some local beekeepers. It's been hard to find someone that's close willing to do the work. Willing to do the work? maybe that's why
 

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I'm going with double nuc boxes this year. They're somewhat different than Michael's, but the concept is similar.

I still don't understand how Michael manages swarming other than having superior genetics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm going with double nuc boxes this year. They're somewhat different than Michael's, but the concept is similar.

I don't have any queen excluder, and I refuse to pay $10 for a queen excluder.

I still don't understand how Michael manages swarming other than having superior genetics.
The swarming, yup that's a hard one I have a store bought queen that just got through her 3rd winter and never made a swarm cell. I'm grafting off of her this year' just wonder if that will help with that.
 

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There are very nice stickys above that have it all I would question someone who has bees and has not seen it of their commitment.
Hi Dan,
I have had bees since 79 I just got a computer, 1.5 years ago, Prior to that time , IE pre 2018, I did not see anything ported thru the internet.
Having a computer does not IMO offer any stance on bee keeping commitment, or enlightenment, You are way off base with such a silly comment.

How many computers did Gerstung have in 1926. ? How could he look up the sticky notes and be committed? By your definition, any one with out the computer and the time to look up many things on the net, is not commited.
Almost everything in bee keeping has been discovered with out computers, before either of us were born.

IMO there are more bee keepers with out a computer, and not on BeeSource , than having computer and On beeSource.
Take a walk in someone else shoes, I think yours are getting a bit tight, maybe affecting circulation.

I know 8 to 10 beekeepers in their 70s-80s Who I respect, they do not even know what BeeSorces is, hmmm they must also be uncommitted............

Somewhat offended
GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi Dan,
I have had bees since 79 I just got a computer, 1.5 years ago, Prior to that time , IE pre 2018, I did not see anything ported thru the internet.
Having a computer does not IMO offer any stance on bee keeping commitment, or enlightenment, You are way off base with such a silly comment.

How many computers did Gerstung have in 1926. ? How could he look up the sticky notes and be committed? By your definition, any one with out the computer and the time to look up many things on the net, is not commited.
Almost everything in bee keeping has been discovered with out computers, before either of us were born.

IMO there are more bee keepers with out a computer, and not on BeeSource , than having computer and On beeSource.
Take a walk in someone else shoes, I think yours are getting a bit tight, maybe affecting circulation.

I know 8 to 10 beekeepers in their 70s-80s Who I respect, they do not even know what BeeSorces is, hmmm they must also be uncommitted............

Somewhat offended
GG
Well Grey Goose you are easily offended since we are using computers only those that have them that have them could be offended if they aren't using them to learn. The books are still here it's much harder to find the right books but it can be done. The beekeeping class I took long ago had no such information as to raising queens or making nucs. Since I was just a young kid at the time I didn't know the right questions to ask. It was 25 year ago when I first heard about something is wrong with the bees and thought that when I retire I might not be able to do it again but when I did I said what the hell I might as well try so the learning process began for me. FWIW the stickys were not there when I first found Bee Source and I didn't find The Sustainable Apiary through Bee Source. We use the tools we have at the time and now that we have them there are many that refuse to use them that's what I'm talking about.
BTW Dr. Samuel Ramsey I just found his work this last year IT'S THE FAT BODY not the hemolymph that the mites eat, makes it easy to see why northern beeks have to keep the mite count lower because of our long winters for our bees to survive.
My point on asking the question was to try to get more to be sustainable, start a little more thinking about what it takes to be a farmer in these tough times.
 

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Can we please return to my question: How does the sustainable apiary prevent swarms, and still get a good honey yield every year?
 

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My hive count is pretty low and I live in an area with high winter losses so overall, its challenging and frustrating.
Why do you think that your area has high winter losses?
 

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Can we please return to my question: How does the sustainable apiary prevent swarms, and still get a good honey yield every year?
I think it's about genetics, if you have swarmy bees you need to fix that. Also, having hives set aside for increase and others that you will use for honey only.
 
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