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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi,

I know I have read this before but here is goes. When making up nucs I usually pull the 2 center frames from the donor hive. Where is the best position to add the empty frames back to the donor hive? Is it best to push the brood area together in the center and place the empties between the outer brood and stores or should I simply place them on the far outside?

Thanks!
 

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10 frame or 8 frame ?

When removing any frame with the old queen the outer frames could be pushed inward to the center. Make room for the new queen box in the center(old hive) unless you wish to wait and see what the old hive does to create a new queen, risky.

Empties should go on the sides farthest from center. Some colonies don't start directly in the center, however follow the queen where ever she's laying. When they run out of frames, they look elsewhere or upward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am using 10 frame equipment. I leave the queen with the original donor hive and add a new queen to the nuc. The problem I noticed last year was if I added the empty frames to the outsides (positions 1 and 10), the bees wouldn't draw them out. I was wondering if I put them in say positions 3 and 7 (between outer brood and pollen/honey stores) there would be a higher chance of the bees drawing them out.
 

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Better yet. Push the old frames together and seal up the old hive. From seeing wild honey bee hives, they build from the inside out and are in a rounded pattern. A tighter quarters like an 8 frame may be more efficient for them in this sense. I guess you could try to use 8 frames in a 10 frame super and use the 2 extras for the outside frames of your new nuc. Let them draw it out and slowly add on as they grow. They're going to use the frames as efficiently as they wish. New colonies draw comb on the upper quarter of the frames for food storage when nothing is available. Might as well add a honey super on top when the nuc is larger than 6-7 frames strong.
 

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as long as it is warm enough not to git chilled brood. rember you just took 5 frames of bees from that hive. i am ging to do the same this year with 2 hives. take 2frames honey and pollen 3 frames of caped brood plus all the atached bees. i am going to replace the 5 frames with drawn comb from the upper brood box or a super. then checkerboard the upperbox and feed them to get them to draw out the new foundation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi,
I think you guys don't understand my question. I am only removing 2 deep frames of brood and eggs from the donor hive (which consists of a deep and 2 mediums). I want to know if there is an optimal position when replacing the 2 deep frames in the donor hive.
I'm pretty sure this runs along the same line as people who change out old comb yearly in the brood box.
 

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Hearing from "everyone" is not especially helpful....
But everyone has an openion so bee careful what you ask for

.[/QUOTE]Some of us with limited experience are seeking advice from experienced beekeepers.[/QUOTE]

Limited experience :s some times the nubee can see stuff that others cant.

OK boys and girls lets play nice here :gh:
 

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I've installed foundation in the broodnest in all positions. If you are visiting your hives frequently put 1 frame foundation between 2 frames of worker brood and the other frame of foundation in 1 or 10 location. Once the bees have drawn out the foundation in the brood add the other foundation between 2 frames of brood again. If you are not visiting them frequently put 2 brood in the center with foundation on each side then brood on each side again then the rest of your drawn comb keeping brood between honey and pollen on the outside. When doing this you need enough bees to cover all brood and the 2 frames of foundation for a minimum.
 

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When you select your two frames of brood for your nuc you want to make sure that there is plenty of bees covering so that the brood will not get chilled, I usually grab one o two more brood frames, look them over to make sure I didn’t get the queen and then shake the bees from the frames into my nuc box that way I have enough bees to cover the brood and there should bee more nurse bees in there to.

Once your done shaking those extra frames put them back in the donor hive and since you are wanting to put in new frames with foundation I would put them in the middle of your brood nest at positions 4 and 6 or 5 and 7 just so they have brood on both sides, by having brood on both sides will make the bees draw out those frames faster, with less chances of burr comb and you shouldn't have to feed them as much sugar to get them to draw it out either.
 

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Wherever you put them, just make sure there's either capped stores, or new foundation on the frame next door. If there's uncapped stores, they'll just continue to draw those cells out further until it interferes with the new frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks guys for the replies. SCFarms, have you done this technique before? I have always read not to split the brood chamber. The problem I had last year was when I pulled out two of the center frames for my nucs, I simply pushed the other 8 frames toward the center and then placed 1 empty undrawn frame on each outer side. The bees simply wouldn't draw these out, they just kept working in the two mediums brood boxes above. My thinking was maybe when they backfill for winter they may draw these out for stores. But on my last check of the Fall none were drawn.
I'm thinking this year I will place the empty undrawn frames in the 3 and 7 position or even the 2 and 8 in hopes they will draw them either for brood or stores.

Does this sound right?
 

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SCFarms method will work just fine he is right on. In regards to your prior try and for future reference if they are not drawing the outside frames you can always move them in a few (between drawn frames) and they will usually go right to work on them to expand the broodnest. Some might advise not to "manipulate" the brood chamber however it is ok to "split" drawn brood nest frames up with one or two foundation frames TEMPERATURE permitting. They will draw it eventually.
 

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Belt152, when I've made up nucs, I have installed foundation next to the brood nest of the donor hive. I've had better luck with them drawing out the foundation. Now this assumes you make your nucs in the spring, when the weather is warmer, and the honey flow is starting.

When I've made nucs later in the season, I have had to feed feed feed to get the bees to draw out the foundation. fwiw.
Steven
 

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That is how I used to do it, the last couple of years I have had enough drawn comb that I didn’t have to put in any foundation but I still use a similar technique. A lot of times in ten frame equipment the bees will avoid the outside frames if there is room to work above them, and if they don‘t draw it out during a flow then they defiantly won‘t draw it out in the fall.
 

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SCFarms has it right. If you put new foundation on the outside it will sit there for a long time before the bees start working it unless there's a heavy flow. The bees want a continuous brood area and will draw the foundation faster if you move it in closer to center or closer to the center of their existing brood area. In reality, I don't much worry about it; you should be splitting strong hives anyway so they'll draw it out even if you place the new frames side by side.
 
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