Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The hive I gave away died out. Full of worms and a mouse. How long does it take for the webbing to appear for wax moths. I am still not convinced they are moths but it would be a heck of a lot of beetles if it was hive beetles. No moths seen or adult beetles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,542 Posts
Do you want to know how long you have to wait before it's too late to do something about it? Is that what you are asking? Or do you want to know when you should do something and what that something is? Maybe you want to raise wax worms for fishing bait?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I want to know if the infestation is wax moth or hive beetle. I am assuming that hive beetles do not spin a web. I could be wrong.
While I got your ear. What should I do? The little bit of honey that is left smells fermented. I set the boxes on their side because people say wax moth doesn't like sunlight. We just had a huge thunder boomer that scared the heck out of our dogs. The 1/4 inch layer of worms in the bed of my truck just got washed away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,542 Posts
If the worms in the bed of your truck came from the hive you transported in your truck and since you mentioned the honey smelling fermented, I'd say small hive beetle. Do you have a strong colony of bees in one of your hives? Yes? Put the boxes you just brought home on that hive. That's what I would do.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I thought about putting one box on. What will they do with the fermented honey?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Does your advice hold true if the infestation is wax moth?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,542 Posts
It may only be the surface that is fermented. If the colony is strong it will do something w/ the honey, recycle it maybe. If the infestation is wax moth the same advice applies. Wax moth don't leave sliminess behind. What were the worms on the deck of your truck like?
 

·
Registered
65 colonies +/- mostly Langstroth mediums, a few deeps for nuc production
Joined
·
493 Posts
Sounds like small hive beetle. Look at the life cycle. Wax moth spins the web in the comb and pupates there. SHB larvae crawl out to pupate in the ground or in trash accumulated on the bottom board.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
What were the worms on the deck of your truck like?
They looked the same as the worms that took out the other two hives. 1/4 to 1/2 long and white. I scrapped off the frames from one box and threw it on the one strong hive I have left. Bee were fine with me pulling the top and inner cover off. I didn't use any smoke or veil. We lost power twice already. I thought the storm was over but I guess not.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
SHB larvae crawl out to pupate in the ground or in trash accumulated on the bottom board.
Even though there was a SBB the mouse left a lot of trash on the screen. And it is stuck on. It won't knock off by just banging the SBB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
ime- wax moth leave a web upon doing their deed. SHB slime out a frame. Both leave larvae, both suck, both stink, but SHB stink more.

If you want to 'save' the honey from your frames, ime I'd set the boxes on their side and let bees rob out what they want, and call it what it is. If you set too much slimed out gear on a hive, I think you risk forcing them to abscond.

If I have gear that gets nasty, I scrape it into a solar melter...what the bees didn't claim gets salvaged as wax or feed. Anything else is compost. Just my two cents
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
If you set too much slimed out gear on a hive, I think you risk forcing them to abscond.
This is why I only put one box on to see how it goes.

In retrospect I could have been the problem for three hives failing. I used boxes of honey from last year that were not protected and stored in the house for two split hives and this one also. The hives might not have been strong enough to handle wax moth/ hive beetle infestation in early spring. Obviously I didn't think the honey I used was infected when I did it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,691 Posts
Almost replied when this thread started, but put it off. Wasn't sure I knew what the question was. If the biggest of the "worms" was only a half inch - that's about full grown size for the beetle larvae. Wax worms get to about a full inch long. No webbing - not wax worms. Only one answer.

I wouldn't put honey back on a hive that was infested with beetle larvae. The larvae can live in the fluid environment of honey - coming up to a hole in the wax to breath. (Their feces in the honey is reported to be the cause of fermentation) I'm guessing that their breathing holes are the cause of honey oozing out of infested honey supers in the honey house.

Back out of infested honey put back on a hive - Pronto.

Walt
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
It seems as though we have a difference of opinion among two knowledgeable beekeepers. Thanks for your input Mark and Walt. Why did I not see one hive beetle? Many of the comb structures have been picked away and even the foundation which lead me to believe wax moth not hive beetle.

I sought advice on beesource and got it so I acted accordingly. If I back track now I will learn nothing.

There are still three boxes sitting on their side about 8 ft away from these two hives. I am checking for worms on these frames and see next to nothing while the honey is oozing out of these boxes. I see absolutely no robbing going on. The honey that has been destroyed was uncapped. One frame still has a flap of just the cappings free from the cells about 6x4 in area. If we could only uncap that well. Do beetles eat into the wax cells?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,542 Posts
Could be because the shb are not in the adult stage of life, that of a beetle. Just like you didn't see any moths, the adult stage of wax moth growth. Wax worms are larval wax moth. Or is that the pupal stage? I'm not sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Acebiurd
SHB live in the darkness of the hive and when exposed to light they will run for cover and will crawl into an open cell. In a strong hive the bees will keep the SHB under control and prevent them from lying their eggs. When something happens to the nest, splitting, moving, taking honey, a storm, an animal attack etc the bees lose focus and let the beetles run. The female lays upwards of 600 eggs at a time and they will hatch in 24 to 30 hours. The larva then eat their way through the comb and poop as they go. This kills the larva and ruins the honey. The bees will not remain in the hive when infestation reaches a certain point, they will abscond. Putting your boxes on their side in the sunshine will cause the beetles to fly away, the larva will crawl to the edge and drop to the ground so you will not see anything in the boxes.
All bee hives have SHB living in them. You may not see them but they are there. I have seen SHB in the middle of swarms.
Wax moths have a slightly different body, the legs are different and the color is also. They to are nocturnal and they fly into the nest at night, lay their eggs and usually depart. The larva hatch and spin spider web-like strands behinf them. They to kill the bee larva and ruin the honey.
You can eliminate SHB by putting a black sticky board in the bottom of the hive and putting a Plexiglass cover on top of the hive. The Plexiglass allows light to penetrate the interior and drive the beetles to the bottom where they get stuck and die. This eliminates the wooden to cover and inner cover.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,203 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I hope they do drop to the ground because that will be their demise. I have a barrage of chickens that will pic them out like heat seeking missiles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,265 Posts
I want to know if the infestation is wax moth or hive beetle. I am assuming that hive beetles do not spin a web. I could be wrong.
While I got your ear. What should I do? The little bit of honey that is left smells fermented. I set the boxes on their side because people say wax moth doesn't like sunlight. We just had a huge thunder boomer that scared the heck out of our dogs. The 1/4 inch layer of worms in the bed of my truck just got washed away.
Why in world didn't you freeze the nasty mess before putting it on your hive? I don't have freezer space so I would have simply bagged up the frames and tossed them in the trash.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top