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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
As people pay more attention to health and environmental protection, the concept of "organic" has gradually strengthened in recent years. For example, organic honey is sought after by people, but what are the differences between organic honey and regular honey? :s


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The label? You have to be pretty isolated to be able to control your environment for 30 square miles including airborne particles, I believe.
 

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The label? You have to be pretty isolated to be able to control your environment for 30 square miles including airborne particles, I believe.
+1 that would my answer as well. Robert had the exact answer I was thinking when I read the Question
to really place the Organic label on, you would need to "know/guarantee" a 3 mile radius is chem free. Very few places one can do that today.

to me the label would cause suspicion, hmmm if they would miss lead there maybe they are adulterating as well.

GG
 

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If you locate the source of "organic" honey on the label, you'd most often see - Brazil.
So I always wondered what exactly they do in Brazil to guaranty USDA organic honey requirements.
They do have mite-resistant, africanized bees.
But what about the environment?

I used to buy Brazilian organic honey (until I got my own bees going).
Thinking back - it was over-processed and pasteurized - I would not buy it today.
 

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If you locate the source of "organic" honey on the label, you'd most often see - Brazil.
So I always wondered what exactly they do in Brazil to guaranty USDA organic honey requirements.
They do have mite-resistant, africanized bees.
But what about the environment?

I used to buy Brazilian organic honey (until I got my own bees going).
Thinking back - it was over-processed and pasteurized - I would not buy it today.
Brazil has different laws defining "organic" than the USA. When it meets Brazil's organic code, it can be imported and packaged here as such, though it does not necessarily meet our organic standard.

Our honey packaging laws are pretty messed up.
 

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Here in Australia we have some great organic honey from national parks where bees are placed at least 10km away from farmland or urban areas. We also have some of the strictest regulations regarding organic labeling in the world.
 

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Brazil has different laws defining "organic" than the USA. When it meets Brazil's organic code, it can be imported and packaged here as such, though it does not necessarily meet our organic standard.

Our honey packaging laws are pretty messed up.
Well, to be sold as "organic" in the USA, the USDA organic definition must be met.
Here is organic honey from Brazil/Mexico - it has USDA stamp on it.


https://www.amazon.com/Wholesome-Or...8&sr=1-1-12d4272d-8adb-4121-8624-135149aa9081

For the USDA stamp to be applied, the foreign entity should enforce compatible standards.
For example:
Production Requirements. All products traded under this agreement must be produced and certified in compliance with the USDA organic regulations.
https://www.ams.usda.gov/services/organic-certification/international-trade/India

So speaking of Brazil or India, unclear how they do it; but supposedly they do it.
But I don't care anymore of them.
:)
 

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Well, to be sold as "organic" in the USA, the USDA organic definition must be met.
Here is organic honey from Brazil/Mexico - it has USDA stamp on it.


https://www.amazon.com/Wholesome-Or...8&sr=1-1-12d4272d-8adb-4121-8624-135149aa9081

For the USDA stamp to be applied, the foreign entity should enforce compatible standards.
For example:

https://www.ams.usda.gov/services/organic-certification/international-trade/India

So speaking of Brazil or India, unclear how they do it; but supposedly they do it.
But I don't care anymore of them.
:)
There is no USDA standards for organic honey.
 

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While technically true, there are still requirements to meet.
Else the USDA stamp is meaningless and why bother with it.
Of course, there is exemption for the small folks.

Anyways, anyone can google just as well.
Unsure why even ask about this on BS - just creates more uncertainty.
:)

https://brookfieldfarmhoney.wordpress.com/2012/01/03/usda-organic-honey-what-does-it-mean/
So your article says:

If the honey is harvested outside of the US it is considered Organic if it meets that country’s organic standards as well as the US standards. Remember, there are NO U.S. STANDARDS, so compliance on that point is quite easy. In some countries Organic standards are rough: the UK, the European Union, Canada, Singapore…they all have tough standards. In other places, “organic” honey is not so “organic”.
And I said:

Brazil has different laws defining "organic" than the USA. When it meets Brazil's organic code, it can be imported and packaged here as such, though it does not necessarily meet our organic standard.

Our honey packaging laws are pretty messed up.
and

There is no USDA standards for organic honey.
And the debate is?
 

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.......

And the debate is?
You are saying - there are no standards.
I am saying - sure there are (just not as technical and well defined as ISO TCP/IP standards or ANSI SQL standards).

Let us just kick this back to the USDA and wash out hands.
This is not really for us to debate.

Because the debate itself is introduced by inconsistency from the original sources (here is well documented cases for India/USDA):

Labeling. Products produced under the agreement must meet all USDA organic labeling requirements. USDA Organic Seal

USDA Organic Seal >>>
People who sell or label a product "organic" when they know it does not meet USDA standards can be fined up to $17,952 for each violation.
https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/organic/organic-seal

Clearly, they are throwing around the term - "USDA standards".

So while there are no technical honey standards, here are higher level, umbrella "USDA standards" requiring the Indian-produced honey should comply with in some ways, so to be sold as "organic" (which may include various standardization criteria I guess).

And so, there are not technical standards, but yet there are some sort of "standards".
For sure, there are not engineering level standards to speak of.
Not even close - no debate about this one.
 
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