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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm breeding queens from stock I got last year. I was told they are Saskatraz. But if i'm open breeding and not in control of who they are mated with are they still "Saskatraz" or should i be calling them Saskatraz hybrids? At what point do i have something different? How many generations?
 

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Mutts from a Saskatraz queen.
 

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I'm breeding queens from stock I got last year. I was told they are Saskatraz. But if i'm open breeding and not in control of who they are mated with are they still "Saskatraz" or should i be calling them Saskatraz hybrids? At what point do i have something different? How many generations?
Your new queens will producing some mutt bees that resulted from the open mating - these bees are conditionally ~50% Saskatraz.
However, these same queens will be producing conditionally ~100% Saskatraz drones - so, this is in your interest to produce as many those drones as possible - so to influence bees in your vicinity if you want the genetics you bought to stick around (best bang for the money spent on your "Saskatraz" stock or whatever that is).

Last year many beeks in my area bought into some "Saskatraz" stock - lots of that stock successfully died over the winter (which they should have theoretically survived).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Your new queens will producing some mutt bees that resulted from the open mating - these bees are conditionally ~50% Saskatraz.
However, these same queens will be producing conditionally ~100% Saskatraz drones - so, this is in your interest to produce as many those drones as possible - so to influence bees in your vicinity if you want the genetics you bought to stick around (best bang for the money spent on your "Saskatraz" stock or whatever that is).

Last year many beeks in my area bought into some "Saskatraz" stock - lots of that stock successfully died over the winter (which they should have theoretically survived).
This is the track i'm following. So lets say my original Saskatraz is 100 percent. Then the queens i made this year could be 50percent saskatraz. If i use those next year to breed then potentially 25 percent. I just want to accurately describe the queens so i guess Saskatraz mutts are best to describe them.
 

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This is the track i'm following. So lets say my original Saskatraz is 100 percent. Then the queens i made this year could be 50percent saskatraz. If i use those next year to breed then potentially 25 percent. I just want to accurately describe the queens so i guess Saskatraz mutts are best to describe them.
Pretty much once you queen is 25% Saska, it is also 75% NON-Saska.
Random NON-Saska - to be sure.
Hehehe.

So anything below 50% is ..... what exactly?
How can you honestly still label it to be a "Saska mutt"?
Being honest anything below 50% is a random mutt and should be called exactly that (not a Saska mutt).

The locally surviving mutt population is more important, whatever that amounts to be for your particular location - due to the locally important traits - not the commercial Saska label what matters.
I guess some people like the shiny labels anyway; packaging still matters.
:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'll have to consider this next year when i'm doing queens. Thanks for the responses
 

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I would say that your "Queens are openly-bred daughters of a Saskatraz Queen." At least for that first year. Can't get anymore truthful than that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I would say that your "Queens are openly-bred daughters of a Saskatraz Queen." At least for that first year. Can't get anymore truthful than that.
That definitely sounds better i think. At least from a consumer angle a mutt is not as good as a bred animal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I agree and I have heard that the name “Saskatraz” is trademarked. I would do some research before using that name in any advertising.
Looks like its not active.
"On Wednesday, November 9, 2011, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for SASKATRAZ. The USPTO has given the SASKATRAZ trademark serial number of 85468144. The current federal status of this trademark filing is ABANDONED - FAILURE TO RESPOND OR LATE RESPONSE. "

If they come knocking i'll claim my dyslexia and i'm really selling Zartaksas bees.
 

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Terrence, I have always thought that "locally adapted, open mated, survivor stock queens" was a pretty good way of describing any queen that I was proud of having raised. My bees are all mutts and seem to be getting more and more mutty. At least I can still work them without smoke, most of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Terrence, I have always thought that "locally adapted, open mated, survivor stock queens" was a pretty good way of describing any queen that I was proud of having raised. My bees are all mutts and seem to be getting more and more mutty. At least I can still work them without smoke, most of the time.
Yea personally i think these girls are amazing. almost hard to manage because the queens are such prolific layers and they pack the honey double wide. I started my 15 2 frame nucs with one frame of brood from one hive. no joke. i put in 5 foundations and a week later they are packed with eggs and larvae. but until i get a reputation like the big dogs for selling quality local mutts i know people look for a name. I did when i was starting out as we all have i'm sure. One of us is going to breed the golden queen one of these days that rips mites in half and drinks hive beetle blood for breakfast.
 

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Hi Terence.
IF (big 'IF') your original queens were 100%-ers, then you could call your queens "F1 Saskatraz" - or "Saskatraz F1's".
Although 'F1' is actually an abbreviation used to describe a first generation hybrid (i.e. having known 'pure-line' parents) - I think most people now consider it to be a shorthand description of any form of first generation progeny.

Perhaps a better description would come from calling your queens by a unique name - such as: "New Hampshire Blacks" or "Derry Blacks" - if indeed they are black (I know nothing about this sub-type). Or - even append your own name to them ? Then - within any advert, add a small description outlining their origins.

BTW, I'd never call them 'mutts' (even if they are) or "once-upon-a-time" anythings - as such terms are not exactly attractive to potential purchasers. :)
LJ
 

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Unsure why, but one important component of historic naming is lost.
Did you all notice - how the historic names are location-attached?
Caucasian Grays...
Caucasian Yellows...
Italians...
Within Russia, there actually populations also called by the locality name (e.g. Baskirian, etc).
The so-called Russian bee in the US (commercial name, really) - in Russia-proper it is called - Far Eastern bee (NOT Russian, which only makes sense in Russia).

This makes sense because the specific location defines the bee that lives there.

So - I would call mine - Southern Wisconsin Bee (not black, not yellow, not whatever - I can not control the coloring anyway).
But I can control where my beehives are sitting around - that is called - locality (and whatever environment comes with it).

If only those annual package trucks would stop coming.
These year they were selling lots of "Russians" here...
What mess and impossibility to actually create the "Southern Wisconsin Bee" because of it.
 

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They're Kaizen Kustom Queens! Be proud of them, you took the time to raise queens from your best overwintered hives. The best queens I have are the ones I raise myself. What are Saskatraz queens anyway? What's the original source of bees, Carns / New Zealand/ Aussie queens? They're mutts to begin with. If I had to choose between your queens raised in NH and queens from California (and I'm not saying Cali queens are bad) I would pick yours first.
 
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