I SEE A FEW OF PEOPLE ON HERE SAY THERE BEES ARE FERAL. WHAT MAKES THERE BEES FERAL VS A SWARM THAT HAS MULTIPLIED SEVERAL TIMES AND SPREAD OUT OVER A FEW YEARS FROM SOMEONES BACKYARD BEEHIVES? JUST ASKING.
bugman2
In my story, Once they become managed, they are no longer feral. Perhaps their genetics remain feral though 
My bees have come from swarms I caught from a building that has had bees in the same location for 19 years that I have worked there. And they are still going strong without any human intervention. When a swarm lands and someone spots it they call me to come and get it. There are 3 trees that I have spotted in the area that have bees in them also. I guess you would call them feral bees? They sure are productive little bees.
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Oh, boy, NOW you've done it! This is like pitting treatment vs. non treatment beekeepers against each other. In my area of northwest Washington state, the general consensus at the bee clubs, and among beekeepers I've talked to is that almost all of the swarms captured over the last few years are from managed hives. If there are any bee trees around, their location is unknown or kept secret. Most of the swarms captured in our county come from commercial hives doing berry and seed crop pollination, or backyard beekeepers whose hives swarm. Many swarms here have the prettiest yellow bees around. It's rare to hear of the classic "feral" small dark bee around captured here. Some prefer to call their swarms "survivor" rather than feral. I guess any hive that lives through a winter could be called "survivor".
I think it depends largely on location. I've caught swarms in traps and in trees with marked queens. One would think they're feral when they just swarmed from a managed hive.
I think feral bees are just those not under managed care in the same way feral cats are strays, but essentially not any different than a house cat. Perhaps necessarily having a sturdier constitution, but otherwise the same.
(My own bees are all swarms that re-occupied long-running feral hive sites after the previous occupants died or disappeared in the winter/spring of 2012-2013. They are pure bred mutts, and proud of it. Honey bees commonly live in barns and trees in my area. Where they came from, no one knows. )
Enj.
(My own bees are all swarms that re-occupied long-running feral hive sites after the previous occupants died or disappeared in the winter/spring of 2012-2013. They are pure bred mutts, and proud of it. Honey bees commonly live in barns and trees in my area. Where they came from, no one knows. )
Enj.
feral
adjective fe·ral \ˈfir-əl, ˈfer-; ˈfe-rəl\
: of, relating to, or resembling a wild beast
—used to describe an animal (such as a cat or dog) that has escaped and become wild
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feral
adjective fe·ral \ˈfir-əl, ˈfer-; ˈfe-rəl\
: of, relating to, or resembling a wild beast
—used to describe an animal (such as a cat or dog) that has escaped and become wild
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feral
Surely they are not wild bees when once was domesticated. That is if you
agree that honey bees are raised as farm stock just like the goats and horses.
And certainly you would not call an escaped horse a wild one. Wild horses are untamed
in the wild open grass land. Is that the same with the bees?
agree that honey bees are raised as farm stock just like the goats and horses.
And certainly you would not call an escaped horse a wild one. Wild horses are untamed
in the wild open grass land. Is that the same with the bees?
Ferae naturae - latin term used to describe honeybees. The essential meaning is that all bees are non-domesticated livestock in the sense that a horse can be domesticated, but honeybees cannot. Honeybees are not native to the U.S. All bees in trees, buildings, holes in the ground, etc. are escapees from managed colonies imported years ago. From this context, bees in a hive are "managed" bees. All other bees are "feral" bees.
It is not correct to refer to honeybees as "domesticated". The key difference is that a domesticated animal would have difficulty surviving in the wild. Think of how most house cats would be incapable of surviving if you turned one loose in the woods. Now think of a swarm of honeybees. They don't care if they are in a hive or in a hollow tree, so long as there is nectar and pollen to gather, they can survive.
It is not correct to refer to honeybees as "domesticated". The key difference is that a domesticated animal would have difficulty surviving in the wild. Think of how most house cats would be incapable of surviving if you turned one loose in the woods. Now think of a swarm of honeybees. They don't care if they are in a hive or in a hollow tree, so long as there is nectar and pollen to gather, they can survive.
TF Extremist definition - If I own them they are feral survivors. But if they live in a commercial beekeepers hive they are domesticated.
Average Beesource Users definition - The bees are feral if I say they are. Or if I caught them from any swarm they are feral.
My definition - all bees are feral.
Michael Bush definition - The genetics doesn't matter, it only matters if they are on natural small cell comb. When I treated my bees they all died, when I stopped treating them none of them died of mites.
Solomon Parker definition - I do not baby my bees or pour chemicals into the hives, they are feral survivors. That's until I discovered my neighbour was a commercial queen breeder then most of my bees died, it's his fault.
Modernist Pseudoscientist definition - The bees are feral if they live in the Arnot Forest and have been allowed to "return to their original mite resistant genetics", we won't discuss that apis melifera did not originally have mites or mite resistant genetics.
Disclaimer :- No resemblance to persons living or dead is intended, artistic license has been taken.
Average Beesource Users definition - The bees are feral if I say they are. Or if I caught them from any swarm they are feral.
My definition - all bees are feral.
Michael Bush definition - The genetics doesn't matter, it only matters if they are on natural small cell comb. When I treated my bees they all died, when I stopped treating them none of them died of mites.
Solomon Parker definition - I do not baby my bees or pour chemicals into the hives, they are feral survivors. That's until I discovered my neighbour was a commercial queen breeder then most of my bees died, it's his fault.
Modernist Pseudoscientist definition - The bees are feral if they live in the Arnot Forest and have been allowed to "return to their original mite resistant genetics", we won't discuss that apis melifera did not originally have mites or mite resistant genetics.
Disclaimer :- No resemblance to persons living or dead is intended, artistic license has been taken.
Now, that was well written!TF Extremist definition - If I own them they are feral survivors. But if they live in a commercial beekeepers hive they are domesticated.
Average Beesource Users definition - The bees are feral if I say they are. Or if I caught them from any swarm they are feral.
My definition - all bees are feral.
Michael Bush definition - The genetics doesn't matter, it only matters if they are on natural small cell comb. When I treated my bees they all died, when I stopped treating them none of them died of mites.
Solomon Parker definition - I do not baby my bees or pour chemicals into the hives, they are feral survivors. That's until I discovered my neighbour was a commercial queen breeder then most of my bees died, it's his fault.
Modernist Pseudoscientist definition - The bees are feral if they live in the Arnot Forest and have been allowed to "return to their original mite resistant genetics", we won't discuss that apis melifera did not originally have mites or mite resistant genetics.
Disclaimer :- No resemblance to persons living or dead is intended, artistic license has been taken.
Hahaha that's pretty funny. I consider them all feral too however I call bees in a hive 'kept' (ferals) I refer to the escapees as survivors on occasion too.
I refer to the escapees as survivors on occasion too.A feral bee is any bee that has escaped from managed hives (swarmed) into the wild. Once it or it's progeny is returned to a managed condition it is no longer feral.
All bees in North America that live in the wild originally came from managed stocks. Unless a beekeeper knows that a recovered swarm originated from a feral colony that has overwintered one or more times, it is a "stretch" to call it "survivor stock." In my area tracheal and varroa mites killed the wild colonies and they have been replaced by escaped swarms form managed colonies. How well they have survived depends on the genetics they inherited from the queen and her mates. Those same qualities are still in commercial stocks and can be selected for by beekeepers.
All bees in North America that live in the wild originally came from managed stocks. Unless a beekeeper knows that a recovered swarm originated from a feral colony that has overwintered one or more times, it is a "stretch" to call it "survivor stock." In my area tracheal and varroa mites killed the wild colonies and they have been replaced by escaped swarms form managed colonies. How well they have survived depends on the genetics they inherited from the queen and her mates. Those same qualities are still in commercial stocks and can be selected for by beekeepers.
Feral:
- adj.adjective
- Existing in a wild or untamed state.
- Having returned to an untamed state from domestication.
Feral means not managed / not lawfully claimed. Like dogs and cats, minimal effort required to get them back into domestic use. At some point the term wild could apply to long-term feral populations although as long as domestic stocks have an strong input into the feral stocks I think that wild should not apply. In some localities feral colonies represent the majority and are self sustaining although this is not likely to be the case where there are many backyard beekeepers or commercial beekeepers.
Feral to me means not managed by humans. Perhaps to the extent of born in wild. The offspring of the managed swarm is the 1st feral generation.
So far I havn't found a marked queen in a swarm or cut-out. My feeling is 65% is from managed hives, the other 35% are feral tree or house hives. I have no data to prove though.
So far I havn't found a marked queen in a swarm or cut-out. My feeling is 65% is from managed hives, the other 35% are feral tree or house hives. I have no data to prove though.
I don't think there are any specifics for feral bees.
My take is if they are living in something that isn't a managed hive and have managed to make it through at least 24 months...2 of each season...I would consider them as managing on their own and feral.
I think that is why feral stock would be sought after...they are survivors!
My take is if they are living in something that isn't a managed hive and have managed to make it through at least 24 months...2 of each season...I would consider them as managing on their own and feral.
I think that is why feral stock would be sought after...they are survivors!
IMHO, I don't consider bees domesticated, they are managed but still wild by nature since you can't really make a pet of them. That being said, in context of the thread, I consider any established hive that has over wintered for 2 winters or more without man's intervention feral, even these usually originated from managed stock at some point.
I understand that established hives may be old hives that have been repopulated by new swarms, but I have averaged about 15 -20 cutouts per year since 2007, both long established hives and newer hives and I can kind of tell from what the homeowner says and what I see once I open a wall whether the hive has been in constant use since it was first built.
I understand that established hives may be old hives that have been repopulated by new swarms, but I have averaged about 15 -20 cutouts per year since 2007, both long established hives and newer hives and I can kind of tell from what the homeowner says and what I see once I open a wall whether the hive has been in constant use since it was first built.
A feral critter is one that was domesticated (or had a near ancestor that was) and has returned to an entirely wild state.
As several have noted, bees aren't domesticated.
They are wild creatures that we manage.
So any definition of "feral" in connection with bees is not technically accurate.
But I use the term, even if it is not technically accurate.
I use it in reference to bees in a space that has been continually ocxuppied by bees for a couple years or more without human treatment or meddling, or swarms from such a hive.
I've obtained such bees in the past by doing cutouts.
Bees from such a situation are the only ones I have successfully kept treatment free and had thrive.
Very few swarms are what I would call feral.
To me, "feral" indicates bees that have proven they can survive multie winters without human help and still do well.
"Winter is the great see-lector" as a well known beekeeper likes to say.
When I lived in New York, I often saw little black bees, and tried to locate their source(s), but never did.
I very much wanted to.catch a swarm of them to see how they did, and to see if they were as mean as their reputation would have one believe.
If you catch some, I'd be interested in a daughter queen.
As several have noted, bees aren't domesticated.
They are wild creatures that we manage.
So any definition of "feral" in connection with bees is not technically accurate.
But I use the term, even if it is not technically accurate.
I use it in reference to bees in a space that has been continually ocxuppied by bees for a couple years or more without human treatment or meddling, or swarms from such a hive.
I've obtained such bees in the past by doing cutouts.
Bees from such a situation are the only ones I have successfully kept treatment free and had thrive.
Very few swarms are what I would call feral.
To me, "feral" indicates bees that have proven they can survive multie winters without human help and still do well.
"Winter is the great see-lector" as a well known beekeeper likes to say.
When I lived in New York, I often saw little black bees, and tried to locate their source(s), but never did.
I very much wanted to.catch a swarm of them to see how they did, and to see if they were as mean as their reputation would have one believe.
If you catch some, I'd be interested in a daughter queen.
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