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Discussion Starter #1
I even called 1-2 breeders that sell them and get different reports?!?!!?:eek:

Are the Old World Carns those that come from Europe, and the New World Carns a hybrid that used genetics from the Old World Carns and other bees?

Confusing...:s
 

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It has been generally illegal to import bees into the US since the 1920s. Exceptions were made for the Russian bees and a few other small importations. Sue Cobey's New World Carniolans are not significantly different from Carniolans in their native land, I don't think. If you want to try Carniolan bees that would be the way to start. I don't sell bees currently, although I have a VSH breeder queen.
 

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It has been generally illegal to import bees into the US since the 1920s. Exceptions were made for the Russian bees and a few other small importations. Sue Cobey's New World Carniolans are not significantly different from Carniolans in their native land, I don't think. If you want to try Carniolan bees that would be the way to start. I don't sell bees currently, although I have a VSH breeder queen.
Didn't Sue do some work awhile back on this at Ohio State University? Something about well "behaved/mannered" black bees. that produced well?
 

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Sue Cobey initially developed the New World Carniolans stock, a dark race of honey bees, in the early 1980s by back-crossing stocks collected from throughout the United States to create a more pure strain. “Over time, it has proven very productive, winter hardy, well-tempered and more resistant to pests and disease,” she said.
 

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More on Sue Cobey:

“In interviewing beekeepers across the country for an American Bee Journal article on the possibilities of breeding local survivor stock, I found that many seeds planted by Sue Cobey had sprouted and flourished,” Mea McNeil said. “For example, the successful Sustainable Honeybee Program in Northern Virginia attributes its existence to encouragement from Cobey.”

Dan Purvis of Purvis Brothers Apiaries, Leoma, Tenn., credits Cobey’s drone management program “as a valuable part of his protocol, which has now maintained untreated stock for over a decade,” McNeil said.

McNeil also noted that Cobey’s “obligations to UC Davis more than fill her time, but she created a special class for a group of Marin County beekeepers on ‘Survivor Stock Queen Rearing.’”

“She does not proselytize about the possibilities of rearing survival stock, and she is realistic about the enormous difficulties that come with the endeavor,” McNeil said. “At the same time, she has successfully mentored beekeepers who choose to take it on.”
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So, getting back to my question...what are Old World Carns?:s A few breeders sell both... Old World Carns and New World Carns.
 

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It has been generally illegal to import bees into the US since the 1920s.

Um new flash people get bees from Australia all the time the comercial pollen guys buy them when they have dead loss in cali and have to get more bees in jan and feb. and thats importing bees.
 

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Something major is being left out of this discussion. The swarming tendency of the Old World Carniolans. Sue Coby's work revolutionized (IMHO) that particular strain of bee. Before her work, I had intentionally used (in the '70's) the Carniolans that predate her work, to increase the number of my hives very rapidly to develop a small pollination business. It worked, better than I could have ever imagined. Carniolan hives had the reputation at the time of swarming much more frequently than the other races and they really did. It was a tendency that was very difficult to control. She saw the need and the ultimate benefits in developing a terrific bee strain. Her New World Carniolans differ dramatically from what the Carniolans used to be, concerning their original swarming tendencies. Have no knowledge of the current "Old World Carniolan" that is presently being sold, if any.... OMTCW
 

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Um new flash people get bees from Australia all the time the comercial pollen guys buy them when they have dead loss in cali and have to get more bees in jan and feb. and thats importing bees.
These have only been available in the past few years, and they are not Carniolans, which is what we were talking about. Real Old World Carniolans would have to come from the "old world" -- specifically, Slovenia, the former Yugoslavia, Austria, Hungary or Germany.

Nothing in the US now really qualifies as Italian, Carniolan, Caucasian, or whatever. They are all descendants of these bees, but have been no doubt homogenized over time. About all that is different is color.

Except for the Russians, of course. These are a particular local type from far eastern Russia, very close to China. Probably originally from the Ukraine.
 

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Dennis Lohman sold OWC. Bought some three years ago. They did fine for me the second year, not worth a darn the first, they seem to make the winter just fine too. I've been using them for crosses and like what I've seen so far.

Camp
 
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