In a walk away split you're meant to divide the resources and populations somewhat evenly. It does not matter where the queen is since both sides have a reasonable population and resources to make emergency queens.

In a run away you're taking advantage of foragers flying back to the original location. Only a few specific frames need to be left behind and everything else moves away.

For me, the run away is superior. Its fast to do. In theory makes better queens. A great foundational split that can evolve into a vertical split, flyback split, or a cut down. Theres no reason to ever do a walk away.

 

In a run away you're taking advantage of foragers flying back to the original location. Only a few specific frames need to be left behind and everything else moves away.

I had never heard this term before, but it is basically how I make increase.
I move a hive, even just a few feet is enough. Then find the queen and put her in the new box at the old hive location. Add one or two frames of food and the rest bare frames. All the foragers pile in and go right to work making comb. It's a good clean new start with few mites since there is no brood.
The old hive has the majority of the younger bees and all the brood and they easily make a new queen.
Once the queens have filled frames with brood they can be moved again and again. I believe this process of moving the queens several times breaks the mite life cycle and results in low mite numbers. Downside is rather small colonies that may need to be protected from predators.

 

WOW, thanks so much!

 

My splitting method starts with a runaway but then progresses to a flyback or a cut down split once the cells are drawn.

This is an excellent way to make splits!

In a run away you're taking advantage of foragers flying back to the original location. Only a few specific frames need to be left behind and everything else moves away.

The runaway has a minimal amount of open brood.

A big improvement I see here—to make even better Queens—is to shake nurse bees (from other open brood frames) into the old location.

Although there’ll be some on the minimal open brood retained, many will go with the Queen’s colony. Remember, foragers hypopharyngeal glands have shrunken and, although they can transition back to nurse bee duties, they’re not optimal brood raisers.

I’m assuming you’re primarily intent on the best MP daughters possible? If I’m wrong, then a simple ‘Runaway’ split will suffice. Since you’re able to find Queens, this extra shake of nurse bees won’t risk her precise location. What are your thoughts?

 

Since you’re able to find Queens, this extra shake of nurse bees won’t risk her precise location. What are your thoughts?

Extra nurse bees is always a good thing. Helps balance the age groups too.

I shake a few frames into a plastic tote and look for the queen there. Same way as people do for alcohol washes. Once I see she's not there, the bees that havent flown off get put into the split.

Not the end of the world if she's accidentally taken. You've just done a perfect flyback split. totally intentional. yep.....

 

All you ever need:

Also:

https://www.gobeekeeping.com/Making hive increases.pdf

 

OTS has never worked for me. Bees repair the cells I notched and choose the cells and larvae they want to raise queens with. Chances of bees using one of the cells I notched is so low, it is not worth the bother to notch.

At about day 7, I knock off the smallish queen cells.

 

This is what I do as well. The queen and two frames of brood go up top over a Snellgrove board.
The only downside is that in ten days I have to go through and knock down all but two cells, as my stock will throw after swarms.

 

Maybe some helpful ideas from

 

I don't typically care for shook swarming. On occasion the bees reject their new home. (rare)

The queen and 2 frames of bees is similar enough and retain all the strength in the original colony. The queen and 2 frames of bees are expanded to 5 frames. Then sold as a nuc. $$$$ for me.

example:

10 colonies, remove all queens and 2 brood-(after they grow) sell the nucs at @ $190 each = $1900

Now we have choices on the original hives. 1. break into as many nucs as possible. 2. Run them for honey. 3. some of each 4. Bigger splits, ect.

Now if we split 5 colonies into nucs times 2.75 nucs= 14 nucs figuring in failed returns. The other five make honey @ 2 supers each averaged.

1. We have a guaranteed $1900 from nuc sales
2. All hives are re-queened
3. Almost doubled our original numbers/ extra nucs replace winter loss
4. We still have honey to sell at whatever you get
-you can also feed honey back for winter if u hate selling honey reducing feed bill
- use your imagination

 

I don't typically care for shook swarming. On occasion the bees reject their new home. (rare)...........

A shook away swarm means - a queen plus 2-3 shook frames of young bees (no brood). New box.
This starter colony is moved, even if a few steps.
These young bees are unable reject anything - they don't fly much yet.

And so you went on to describe all the benefits of the shook away swarm, @Clayton Huestis.
I am confused then whey don't you care for the shook swarming.
It is the same as walk-away split (but only brood-less).

 

FYI; as an intelligent species with language, we can 'choose' to label anything, anyway, anytime we want to, no?

This thread should NOT become a debate over language or proper labels, should it?

It's been way to much fun to destroy all the good intentions imho.

Alas, Winter is upon us.... ...."reduced reverse Doolittle" - I like it!!!

 

FYI; as an intelligent species with language, we can 'choose' to label anything, anyway, anytime we want to, no?
This thread should NOT become a debate over language or proper labels, should it?

Sure - why not ? Let's burn the dictionaries, and each one of us can invent our own terms ad libitum for whatever we want.

Think I'll call my nucs 'fish' and full-sized colonies 'giraffes'. The Queen can be a 'screwdriver', and drones can be called 'paratroopers'. Why not ? And if no-one understands me - well, that's their problem. (Says he, arrogantly ...)

And if I really tried hard, a 'word salad' could result, which of course is a classic indicator of hebephrenic schizophrenia. So sure - let's all behave as if we were mad.
/rant
LJ

 

Making queens from the small side of a split makes no sense; nor does wanting foragers in the queen starter.

A person would be far better served by pulling frames for emerging brood to set up a cell starter then pulling a frame of eggs 5 or 6 days later if they don't want to graft.

The force of all foragers flying back is not something to think of as a small thing. It's mind boggling how much work can be achieved with all the foragers. Don't waste it thinking they raise good queens.

 

nor does wanting foragers in the queen starter.

well to each their own.
I normally take the queen and a frame or 2 of bees away.
then the biggest part is making queens with foragers bringing in nectar and pollen.
Often the older bees are the gard bees so less rob outs and YJ activity for the queen making part.
as well the bees cover more comb and the QCs less often get chilled.

I can normally at day 10 go in and split the queen starter into 3-4 NUCs

so I in general will normally take the queen away,, if the bee density is high and I cannot find her then its a walk away.

 

There are different dynamics to consider depending on the motivation for spitting; example, impending swarm, or pressure for colony increase, wanting two colonies to be somewhat compromised honey producers or one barely weakened and the other multiple splits etc.

Far too many variables to quibble over a blanket statement of which ONE is definitely superior. As usual, It all depends!

 

Those whom the gods would destroy,
They first make mad!

 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could hear no music" - Nietzche

 

Little John wrote: " let's all behave as if we were mad"

Hey Hey Hey now, I represent that remark.

I actually criticize all of these methods, only because if the weather warms suddenly, you can be caught with your pants down, resources are spread too thin. It is safer to rob 3 frames of hatching bees from 3 hives(total of 9), add a frame of "Star" eggs, and check in 2 weeks. It will be at near production strength in case the flow hit early.

Crazy Roland