[raosmun]

:scratch: I keep reading from honey production to swarm control to checkerboarding to -to - to; that one must have drawn comb to be sucessful!
Well; just what to do without all that drawn comb :s
Is there a means, method or whatever to encurage the gals to draw comb on new foundation?? Other than sticking new frames in a hive and hope for the best.

 

[beedeetee]

....that one must have drawn comb to be sucessful!

Just more successful. You will find beekeeping is easier and you have more flexibility with drawn comb. But, we all started somewhere. Unless we found someone that would give it to us or we could buy equipment we all started with foundation (or no foundation I suppose).

They will not drawn out comb until they have something to put in it. Feeding will speed up the process, but you just have to be a little patient when you start out. Just remember that honey bees have started out with nothing but some honey that they took with them and a queen for millions of years.

 

[StevenG]

That's my problem also...not enough drawn comb yet. What seemed to work for me last year, and what I plan to do this year, is two-fold. I run 2-story deeps for the brood nest. I have some shallow depth supers with drawn comb, but the rest is foundation.

First, on my deeps, when I reverse this spring, that will give me drawn comb above, for the bees to move into - take empty bottom, put above top deep in which the bees are clustered. I can pull an outside frame of pollen and honey from the now bottom deep, insert in the middle of the now top empty deep. Then I'll replace the full shallow food super back on top. That one or two frames of pollen/honey moved from the now bottom box into the top deep provides a "bridge" of honey and empty comb up to the feed super. The colony should expand up and out as the weather warms and the colony grows. Hopefully that will enable them to maintain contact with their food reserves.

Second, I have a couple of splits I started late in the season. They have only one deep brood box, and a shallow for food. My plan is to install a deep of foundation above the deep brood box. I'll take the two outside frames of pollen and honey from the bottom deep, replace those with foundation. Then I'll put those two frames of pollen and honey in the top deep, in the center with a frame of foundation between them. That will provide space for the bees to move up, as well as the ability to draw foundation. Of course they'll have to be fed before the flow starts.

I'll have to go back into the bottom box later, to move the foundation closer to the brood to encourage them to draw it out.

Will the plan work? Time will tell. But when you don't have enough comb, you gotta do what you can, trying to incorporate the ideas as best you can.
Regards,
Steven

 

[cjmcharlotte]

I feel the same way about not having any extra built comb so here's my plan.

After two years of no comb being built on the foundation in my shallow super (missed the flow in my first year and they swarmed early the second year), this year I'm going to use a third deep as my super. This means that I can keep some of the built comb in my current two brood deeps and also have something to put in the super for the bees to be interested in. Then I will fill the remaining spaces in all three deeps with empty frames for the girls to build foundationless. This is what I have inferred from Michael Bush's site on helping to prevent swarming and also going foundationless.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm
See "Opening the Broodnest"

Someday soon, I'm going to all mediums so I'm more interchangeable and not so heavy. What would you think of me using empty medium frames in my existing deeps instead of deep frames so that when I do move to medium boxes, I have some built medium frames?

 

[StevenG]

Re: Medium frames of foundation in deep brood boxes...
After they draw the comb in the frames, they'll draw comb from the bottom of the frame to fill the space below.

 

[USCBeeMan]

If you can get some permacomb, use it for brood. It only comes in medium. Wax the permacomb. Have used it and the queen didn't see to mind.

 

[Randall Clark]

Steven....

Since you are somewhat familiar with my current situation, when I do the log cut-out this Spring, would it be better to start with 2 deeps, with the upper one having a frame of comb honey from the log (if there is any) and foundation frames on both sides of the center combed frame? There should be enough natural comb to rubber-band into frames for the bottom deep. I'm assuming if there is some honey stores, this would speed up the process of getting foundation frames drawn out?

Also, my Dad used to have a few hives years ago and he used to take a partial piece of foundation and place it into a deep frame instead of the whole piece of foundation. I like this idea because of reading Michael Bush's thoughts and experiences on foundation-less combs and the health benefits it seems to provide. This is sort of an in-between method. Anybody ever do it this way when starting new frames to be drawn?

 

[StevenG]

Hi Randall... to stay on topic here, I've answered your question on your other thread "How do I make this split"

 

[The Honey Householder]

Looking to put some new foundation out this year myself. Then went to order some foundation the other day and thinking maybe not. The last time I put out new frames with foundation was back in 1982. I think foundation has tripled since then.
I hadn't needed to since the mite did in all the other comm. beekeeper, and I bought them all out.

The easiest way to drawn combs in put the box of foundation on in the honey flow. I'm had hives draw a full deep box out over night before. Nothing beats the real beeswax foundation.

 

[Ravenseye]

Bees really don't pull wax unless they have a need to. You can stimulate a flow with syrup and they'll draw comb from foundation. Basically, if they need space...for storage or brood...they'll make comb. Many beekeepers use swarms to draw lots of comb. A swarm is a mass of bees that "know" they need a home. They're kind of in the mood to build so a swarm is useful for comb production even if you simply combine them with another existing colony at the end of the season. Also, remember that it takes "fuel" to make comb. A new package or swarm benefits from syrup feeding so that they not only have a reason to build but the energy to do it.

 

[Roland]

No fears! We have often installed a 3 lb package on 3 drawn frames, and the other 7 foundation in a deep brood chamber, but only if the weather is good, and the dandelions are blooming. With subsequent visits, the outside frames get rotated in. We find these hives only slightly hindered by this method compared to white drawn comb, but they are often more sucessfull than those on old black comb.

Roland

 

[cheezer32]

I need to get alot of drawn comb so I'm thinking of taking the drawn frames out of the top of a overwinterd double deep hive (just frames shake the bees off) putting them over another smaller hive and adding a deep of foundation on top of the original hive. With the overwinterd hive having such a large population, plus feed and flows, they should draw the top deep out fairly quick because they will need the space, then I'll start the process over again once a good 7-8 frames are drawn. Maybe an exluder over the bottom deep to keep the entire brood nest in the bottom deep so im not stealing it each time.

Last year when I just split the deep in two. They filled a secound deep box of foundation in a week, but this was during a strong flow. But also why I got the idea above.

 

[KQ6AR]

I'm hoping to reverse my brood boxes, then take the 10 drawn frames from the empty box, & give 10 frames foundation on top.
I'll be needing those frames to start some nucs this year.

 

[honeydreams]

best way for me is to take the frame with foundation dip it in 1:1 syrup with honey B Healthy in the mix the bees do very well drawing the comb out when I start a new hive with new frames foundation this way.

 

[raosmun]

For now: I forgot who directed me to "Gerorge Imirie - pink pabes" cleare at the end of the index there is mention of New frames or some thing linke that. what a good read!! as are a lot of his other writings!!
TOOOO bad he has passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!