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Is this just a warre practice, or can this be done with Langstoth? Are there other changes to management what must be done?

It's my understanding that the queen prefers to lay brood beside existing brood, and that this behavior prevents her from laying all over. On the other hand, I've heard that people do get brood in their honey supers when not using an excluder. What's the story?

Does the presence of brood in the honey ruin it? Is this something that one accepts as part of a non-exlucer practice? What does it mean to the final product?

thanks in advance
spock out
 

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With good management practices, the queen will lay a tight brood pattern. The workers will surround the brood with pollen. The workers will store all the honey above the brood. If they make a good honey barrier above the brood, the queen will not cross the honey barrier. If the brood nest is overcrowded, she will cross.
 

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Sometimes it means one more brood box, but often not. It DOES mean not having to buy any queen excluders. Other than that, you'd not notice much difference between one w/ or w/o an excluder. (except the one w/o will have more honey :) )
 

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Is this just a warre practice, or can this be done with Langstoth?
>Can definitely be done with Langstroth.

On the other hand, I've heard that people do get brood in their honey supers when not using an excluder. What's the story?
>The queen will sometimes lay in the supers. She might lay anywhere. For the most part, you still will have the main brood nest, but you will sometimes find patches of brood up a couple levels in a super. If you put an empty honey super on above the brood nest and the brood nest is crowded you may find that your "honey super" is now a brood box.

Does the presence of brood in the honey ruin it? Is this something that one accepts as part of a non-exlucer practice?
>Do not harvest any honey with brood on the frame. Wait until the brood hatches. If you're pulling a super you can move any frame with brood on it to a super that is staying on the hive to be harvested later. You do not want brood in your honey.
 

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Rather than do this all again:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231982

I can assure you that bees don't just go on vacation if you put an excluder on. They don't decide that they don't need to work as hard and they don't have any problem going through the slots. There is a correct way to use this tool, and I admit it took me quite a few years to master it, but I'll never go back.

I will admit that if I waited to take supers off until fall that it probably wouldn't make as much difference, but our flow is over in July and I sell honey in August so waiting really isn't an option.
 

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>Is this just a warre practice, or can this be done with Langstoth? Are there other changes to management what must be done?

I and probably, by my observation half of the beekeepers out there do not use queen excluders with their Langstroth hives.

>It's my understanding that the queen prefers to lay brood beside existing brood, and that this behavior prevents her from laying all over.

Exactly.

> On the other hand, I've heard that people do get brood in their honey supers when not using an excluder.
> What's the story?

If you allow them to have drone comb in the brood chamber this isn't a problem. If you don't then they are desperate for some brood comb somewhere and since the soft wax in the supers can be reworked and the cocoon reinforced comb in the brood chamber cannot, they will, in an attempt to get "droneright", put drone the only place they can, the supers. Not because that is their preference but because they have been given no choice.

>Does the presence of brood in the honey ruin it?

No. I just don't harvest it if there is brood in it.

> Is this something that one accepts as part of a non-exlucer practice?

That occasionally there will be some brood in a box you harvested? Probably. But it will also still have bees on it as they won't leave the brood. It's easy enough to spot and you can just put it back on the hive.

> What does it mean to the final product?

That depends on your processes, I guess.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#excluders
 

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We don't use excluders on our hives. We haven't had any issues with the queen laying in the supers. So far, the queen has stayed in the two lower brood chambers.

I would experiment and try this method on a single hive and see how it works for you. You'll never know unless you give it a try.
 

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I Dont' have a lot of experience as I am just starting my second year... but this is what I found and what I will try:
Last year I took the queen excluder off of one of my two hives to see if it would boost honey production. The queen moved up and layed eggs in the honey super. I replaced the queen excluder and all that brood hatched. The bees then put honey where the brood was and I extracted it at the end of summer without problems.

This year I am going to try leaving the queen excluder in place until the first super is full of honey. THen I will remove the queen excluder- I am thinking that that 1st super of honey will act as an excluder and prevent the queen from going any higher to lay eggs. I would prefer to not have the excluder in place- it was a big sticky pain during inspections- the bees kept filling it up with propolis and wax which I had to keep cleaning out.
 
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