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As the original post asked making deep frame hive using Lang equipment the only way I see getting deep frames is as shown a 9x18 on end(which is very narrow IMO) which also needs modifying to be able to hang or some configuration made from combination of deep, medium, or shallow standard Lang frames which would attached in some way. Two deeps(18x18 combined) is oversized but our Russians haven't had trouble filling them with comb. Full of honey they are easiest handled by two. An oversized extractor would be Ideal for custom extra deep frames but not in my future. Spent enough on our standard one and got together our use of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
Not necessarily.
For whatever reason, some bee lines are less likely to go up (but yet others will readily go up).
For whatever reason the Italians in similar setups often seem to go crazy and just go into non-stop brood production (and just stay in the brood nest). The spill over bees will go up, BUT whatever they bring in, gets eaten to produce yet more brood. The extensive brooding space backfires in this regard.
Happened often enough to me so I feel this is a trend.

However, the Carni are more likely to go up and store honey as expected of them.
Like here:
Thanks Greg; I need some more thinking about this frame depth controlling factor in whether or not the bees will put honey up into supers vs crowd the brood frames and swarm.
From first impressions, I have been pleased with my 11inch deep Lang frame colonies with my bees predominately Carni. Have done virtually nothing using the follower board tool effectively. I am sure I dont need 10 full frames of that size for winter stores. Trying to extrapolate this to the even deeper aspect of the Levens frame hive. Always something new to entertain yourself with bees!

Edit I will make the box deep enough to use the Lang frames vertically so I can populate with bees from lang colonies and make up some of the 16 inch deep dedicated Lazutin frames. Apparently they tolerate almost any amount of space under the frames.
 

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I have not been seeing any resistance by bees to fill supers as they can on any of the three 18x18 frame hive designs I am experimenting with. Two, one vertical with standard Lang 9" supers above a double deep insulated brood box for wintering the other horizontal use excluders to produce honey only surplus frames. I can't say they have filled all available available frames in each hive because each colony is young from either new Nuke(second summer) or recovered swarm(which being Russians I believe are programed to swarm which I don't mind) or short nectar resources(severe long drought this year) and much shorter nectar season to fill to capacity such large space hives. Also we are just getting enough used comb to supply new bees with no extra resource burden to build new comb.

This year will be our second with Russians to see if they and insulated hives help with winter survival. First years nuke came thru strong but not mid July swarm we captured(as we were still standardizing frames that could be cross used we could not add any honey to weaker hive and we had record cold that winter(-38 actual).

This last summer we moved original nuke bees to the vertical hive and they filled brood box with winter honey and 1 1/2 9" supers(during drought) which was pleasing to us. Other two hive we hived two recaptured swarms of good size.

Our success metrics might be different than many weeks(survival most important to us) and our bee climate on the extreme range so comparing hive methods and other bee info is challenging(but interesting).
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Have been rolling around options of modifying lang boxes to take rotated Lang frames and also use the standard Layens frames. Got to thinking that I would like more frame space to allow two queens or requeening within the one box so have decided to make a dedicated hive that will take around 25 frames. I will build 22 inches deep so can use the Lang frames on end. That give flexibility in moving bees or having frames that can be extracted.

I broke ground this afternoon and planed some rough sawn 2x6 and 2x8 wood. It cleans up at 1 3/4 thick. Will probably use groove and spline construction to keep the pieces all in line.
A little bit of snow and wet made the planer feed rollers spin a bit till I got a couple of passes on. Planing goes better with a partner but the partner had other ideas today. Good help is hard to find at the wages I pay.;)
 

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crofter, I changed my 23 long layens deep this spring into a combined hive of a 7 frame nuc side and 16 frame side for the main nest. The only thing I neglected to do, since I did not factor in that I might like to super, is making sure that the dimensions fit the supers exactly. However, with reading on BS I have been able to modify that for next year.

I now wish I had done more of an equal split in the hive so I could run two colonies and super each separately so 25 frames probably would have been a better measurement for me to use.

I also put one of those large metal bee discs in the removable dividing panel so if I have a weak side I can spin it to the ventilation holes and let the pheromone penetrate before letting them pass freely. I never thought of using it for a 2 queen system, that might be something to consider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
My pieces are not cut to length yet. I could easily make it long enough to place two lang supers length wise on top. 10 frame ones could be fudged on but 8 frame ones would fit. I dont know whether they will expand honey beyond the combs in the main box. Will be able to accomodate them though if they do. It is no more work to make it longer and not much in the way of drawbacks that I can see. I have run two queens in the stacked nucs on a common bottom board so I dont see why not. I think there is lots of room to winter two colonies in it.
 

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I like this set up except for the lower box as once again, it would at some point, require me to lift off the heavy middle one.
This is a very interesting approach. Your heavy lifting could be mitigated by laying the live down on its side before separating the bottom chamber. I recall the Abis brothers write of doing this (in Mastering the Art of Beekeeping) to access the brood chambers of very heavily supered (tall) colonies.

Perhaps 1/8 sch 10 pipe would work as top bar (.410 inch od x .049 wall).
 

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This is a very interesting approach. Your heavy lifting could be mitigated by laying the live down on its side before separating the bottom chamber. I recall the Abis brothers write of doing this (in Mastering the Art of Beekeeping) to access the brood chambers of very heavily supered (tall) colonies.
That could be done and yet, for me at my age, trying to lay the two on their side is not something I would attempt. Then separating the two boxes and righting them in order to remove frames and check for brood disease, stores, or a queen sounds like a two man job.


I am happy with the long deep hives that I have, they fit my layens frames or if I like, two med. langs together the long way. I can get into the brood chamber in fall when the supers are off and treat, look at stores, see if the queen is OK or do other manipulations that might be needed by just opening the top.

I would not put in a screened bottom again. Since the hive is too heavy to have it removable I find it just gets blocked with junk that won't pass thru and the bees seem to leave much of it maybe because of the depth. I will still have the space below the frames and the access door along the backside at the bottom because I can still slide in a white board to see mite drop, sweep out the junk or, if needed, use it as ventilation if I decide to use Formic or another product that needs a larger ventilated space below the frames. I removed the screen in June on one hive and it worked better.
 

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Your heavy lifting could be mitigated by laying the live down on its side before separating the bottom chamber.
I don't see this approach to be trivial or inherently safe.
It is either a two-man job OR requires some appropriate equipment.

Basically, all the hokey-poky ways are resolved by a single-tier deep brood chamber.
All it is to it.

Back to the idea of either running a sufficiently large frame OR running a truly light box (or combination of the two).

Every time I look at my "student's" classic double-deep Lang, I have no desire to do anything with it.
There is no easy, efficient way to work about the 10-frame boxes, unless you are a strong and healthy male perhaps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
The single 11+ depth dadant brood box seems workable from my one years experience with them. Al least only one brood box to check but still the problem of at least three medium supers to offload when you need into the brood box. When the medium honey supers get near full they are heavier than I should be lifting. I will have fun playing with the new management that comes with the Layens concept. I did some more calculating and the 10 frame lang boxes will fit OK under the lid of the Layens. Next move is to dress the edges of the planks and cut to length. - 16 C. 3 deg. F. here this morning. I guess I better get used to it. Spoiled by the warm November.
 

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Every time I look at my "student's" classic double-deep Lang, I have no desire to do anything with it.
There is no easy, efficient way to work about the 10-frame boxes, unless you are a strong and healthy male perhaps.
This made me nod in agreement. Every time I had to work the swarm I put into a 10-frame lang system I swore. The box is too heavy and it was suggested by a bee friend that I just remove a few frames before removing the upper brood chamber and that was a PITA. The disruption to the bees is intense and they are all in the air, unlike when working the ukrainian deep.
 

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The single 11+ depth dadant brood box seems workable from my one years experience with them. Al least only one brood box to check but still the problem of at least three medium supers to offload when you need into the brood box.
I am going to make 5 frame supers that will also fit side by side on a 10 frame lang if need be, don't ask me why I am continuing to make all my equipment fit the lang dimensions but I am. I guess my thinking is that if I want to put a 10 frame super on I can do that as well.
 

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......I just remove a few frames before removing the upper brood chamber and that was a PITA.The disruption to the bees is intense .......
No wonder people keep talking of bee defensiveness. :)
The Italians bees are pretty much a requirement.

And how the bees are calm when working with the single deep chamber.
Nothing new for those who know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I am going to make 5 frame supers that will also fit side by side on a 10 frame lang if need be, don't ask me why I am continuing to make all my equipment fit the lang dimensions but I am. I guess my thinking is that if I want to put a 10 frame super on I can do that as well.
Look at the 4 frame dimensions. Two of them fit where a ten frame does.
 

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