Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1701 - 1720 of 1744 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,701
Today's high of 57 degrees F presented a good opportunity to complete a brief assessment of all colonies. After a quick peek from both above (via screened inner cover) and below (via screened bottom board), the only colony that was provided additional supplemental sugar was #2011.

It was also time to conduct the Winter 48-hour mite drop assessments (as attached).

Finally, I evaluated the mite drops for damage. This was the first time I have done so following a conversation with Mr. Krispn Given with Purdue University relative to evaluation of mite mouth parts (gnathsoma). In short, I wanted to clarify with him whether the Purdue protocol included evaluations for damage to the gnathsoma (which he confirmed) relative to the 'New Damage Categories' paper published in 2017.

While I will spare you the gory details, I now feel more confident in evaluating the mouthparts for damage- in fact, it is now the first place I focus on for assessments. The following video gives a good sense of a live (and undamaged) mite anatomy from the ventral side:

 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,702
Our nighttime low of approximately 16 degrees F on Christmas Eve produced the second dead-out of the season (#2012). This colony was a swarm hived on May 1st that never really took off and has been on the watch list all season.

They drew-out almost a full Warre box, albeit on a 45 degree angle from the entrance and the spacing of the interior combs is approximately 1-1/2" center-to-center, which seems to be consistent with the value noted in colonies around here which choose to improvise on the top bars (currently at 1-1/4" center-to-center).

In the spirit of experimentation, I decided to try Squarepeg's trick of doing a mite wash on the dead cluster. There were exactly 241 bees in the cluster and an alcohol wash with through shaking produced 21 mites.

I sincerely hope you all have a healthy and prosperous New Year, filled with an abundance of God's simple gifts.

2012 Queen.JPG 2012 Comb.jpg 2012 Comb Spacing.jpg 241 Bees.jpg 21 Mites.jpg
 

·
Registered
Burlington, MA. Langs
Joined
·
548 Posts
How did that box get so wonky? Did you not check it?
Sorry if you stated that earlier as I did not read all 86 pages ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,253 Posts
In the spirit of experimentation, I decided to try Squarepeg's trick of doing a mite wash on the dead cluster. There were exactly 241 bees in the cluster and an alcohol wash with through shaking produced 21 mites.
Why did this not occur to me?
Darn.
I should also wash the dead outs (nothing to loose there).
Especially, since I had mite count # this year, it would be interesting to see the postmortem counts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,706
How did that box get so wonky?
Tigger:

Good question. This swarm was hived in a Warre box with only top bars- no foundation nor comb guides were supplied.

While I can only speculate, I suspect the comb orientation reflects the comb configuration of the colony from which this swarm emanated.

In the following research, Dr. De Jong outlines unpublished research by Martin, Lindauer and Von Frisch which suggests that colonies will, '...build the parallel combs in the same plane as the combs of the parent colony.'


I was given several Warre hive set-ups from a friend when he got out of beekeeping and after working with them concluded that they are too unruly for my tastes and are thus now treated as genetic resources in the yard- meaning, they are largely left to their own devices and I only intervene in the case of maintenance or clean-up.

Thank you again for your question- feel welcome to chime in anytime.

Happy New Year-

Russ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,707
Why did this not occur to me?
GregV:

Good to hear from you- to be fair, I was only aware of this trick from reading about Squarepeg doing it... so all the credit goes to him.

I hope your remaining colonies are holding-up well thus far, and Happy New Year to you and your family.

Russ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,391 Posts
GregV:

Good to hear from you- to be fair, I was only aware of this trick from reading about Squarepeg doing it... so all the credit goes to him.

I hope your remaining colonies are holding-up well thus far, and Happy New Year to you and your family.

Russ
Have a prosperous honey bee year Russ, God bless. Deb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,709
Have a prosperous honey bee year Russ, God bless.
Thank you, Deb. And same to you. May God bless you and your family in this coming year. Despite the shared challenges of 2020, we still have much to be thankful for... though I will be glad to have this year in the rearview mirror.
 

·
Super Moderator
Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
Joined
·
6,205 Posts
Happy New Year Russ, I am surprised you didn't blame the diagonal comb on Lay lines, magnetic fields, effect of gamma rays on man in the moon marigolds, or some other hard to prove concept. Same orientation as the original hive certainly sounds more plausible. Thanks for the link to the article. I'll give it a read tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,391 Posts
Happy New Year Russ, I am surprised you didn't blame the diagonal comb on Lay lines, magnetic fields, effect of gamma rays on man in the moon marigolds, or some other hard to prove concept. Same orientation as the original hive certainly sounds more plausible. Thanks for the link to the article. I'll give it a read tomorrow.
I have to chuckle at your response JW; I respect all beekeepers and their own personal discoveries, especially those that have so much more experience than I, which is most. Please read this: Bees and Energy (Ley?) Lines ( this is Dave Cushmans site) Now Dave Cushmans site is updated by the renowned Roger Patterson of the UK, who did various lectures on beekeeping at the National Honeyshow in the UK, which were very informative. Read what he had to say.
 

·
Super Moderator
Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
Joined
·
6,205 Posts
Deb, I am too ignorant to know if Ley lines or magnetic fields play a role or not. Sea turtles navigate thousands of miles based on the earth's magneteic fields, so I do not discount these theories to the tin foil hat arena. I do like theories where the results can be reproduced repeatedly. Be curious to know if the oldest of the comb was also on the side of the box that got the most sunlight. (Warmth)
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjayf

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,646 Posts
Since there is no way for science to detect or verify the presence of ley lines, its a hard prospect to test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,714
Read what he had to say.
Deb:

Thank you for the article. Like you, I respect Roger and found his write-up compelling.

Ultimately, my personal sentiments are generally captured by Roger's comment that, 'As an engineer I have always thought the work on bee navigation and communication done by Karl von Frisch didn't explain fully what was happening and there may be more to it that hasn't been discovered.'

My training compels me to follow the science where it will go. My life experience reminds me there are many, many things that science has not (or ultimately cannot) fully-explain.

Thanks again for the post. I enjoyed the read.

Russ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1,715
Be curious to know if the oldest of the comb was also on the side of the box that got the most sunlight. (Warmth)
Happy New Year, JW.

The hive body in question was facing almost directly due East relative to the entrance and it would appear that the initial comb was drawn almost smack-dab in the center of the volume (see attached photo).

That said, I have seen colonies around here cheat to the South side of the box during initial comb building activities. I wonder given that this swarm was hived on May 1st that it was already reliably warm enough for them to switch their goals to maximizing the comb surface area in the cavity?

Always something to learn about these amazing creatures...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,391 Posts
Deb, I am too ignorant to know if Ley lines or magnetic fields play a role or not. Sea turtles navigate thousands of miles based on the earth's magneteic fields, so I do not discount these theories to the tin foil hat arena. I do like theories where the results can be reproduced repeatedly. Be curious to know if the oldest of the comb was also on the side of the box that got the most sunlight. (Warmth)
Ah who knows really about this type of thing? I thought it was intriguing that Dave Cushman wrote about them, but even more puzzling is that when I reread the category Ley Lines it seems the original writings have been changed somewhat by Roger Patterson; it seems he wants to continue the LeyLine/swarm theory. I chuckled because I was crucified on BeeL a few years ago posting this info, everything from crystals to tin foil hats, and Roger Patterson actually posted in Dave Cushmans defense of his findings. I’d like to know his findings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,646 Posts
everything from crystals to tin foil hats
for good reason.. how do you find a lay line?the answer is by dousing, witch like many things in this field fails to prove itself any more effective then random chance under sinstific scrunty. A favorite randy oliver quote of mine "the easiest person to fool is your self"

but how can you be sure the effect isn't a Hartmann line?or a Curry line, or a Benker line or Peyre line?
the last 3 are said to be about 2x as wide (40cm) and may have stronger effect on a bee hive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,391 Posts
Deb:

Thank you for the article. Like you, I respect Roger and found his write-up compelling.

Ultimately, my personal sentiments are generally captured by Roger's comment that, 'As an engineer I have always thought the work on bee navigation and communication done by Karl von Frisch didn't explain fully what was happening and there may be more to it that hasn't been discovered.'

My training compels me to follow the science where it will go. My life experience reminds me there are many, many things that science has not (or ultimately cannot) fully-explain.

Thanks again for the post. I enjoyed the read.

Russ
Thank you Russ; like you and JW have pointed out there is much beyond my comprehension, and when people like Roger Patterson take time to do “citizen science” projects I like to hear about their findings. Remember Sam Ramsey, now Dr. Sam, though not a citizen scientist, what his findings did to the bee scientists/community. A humble man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,391 Posts
for good reason.. how do you find a lay line?the answer is by dousing, witch like many things in this field fails to prove itself any more effective then random chance under sinstific scrunty. A favorite randy oliver quote of mine "the easiest person to fool is your self"

but how can you be sure the effect isn't a Hartmann line?or a Curry line, or a Benker line or Peyre line?
the last 3 are said to be about 2x as wide (40cm) and may have stronger effect on a bee hive.
How true MSL, who knows? I knew someone that doused for water in the ground, I cannot understand how that works, let alone magnetc “lines”.... I have great respect for Dave Cushman, George Imrie, Roger Patterson, Mike Palmer, and many many others, on this site too. My take on this is people, everyone, is a little quirky. Deb
 
1701 - 1720 of 1744 Posts
Top