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Treatment free at all costs - the chronicle of a beekeeper from South Germany

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Discussion starter · #44 ·
Squarepeg said:
we sometimes hear about hives getting 'honey bound' meaning that even the cells in the brood area have gotten filled with stores. it seems that some colonies are never satisfied with 'having enough'.
Click to expand...
I would like to hear more of your thoughts about that.
To be "honey bound" seems to me a trait which is enforced by breeding.

I had not capped honey stores in the broodnest areas throughout the year. But the bees were not "honey bound". Since I´m using dadant, big frames, I believe they place more fuel for nursing and for heating bees between the cells.
This would be clever if a colder spell comes and they cluster around the brood combs to keep them warm.

You all have some experience with ferals. Without beekeepers management, would they be "honey bound" ? Maybe only in late spring before swarming.
It would be interesting to see how much they would forage after swarming without any limited space to stores and with a good flow.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Squarepeg said:
we sometimes hear about hives getting 'honey bound' meaning that even the cells in the brood area have gotten filled with stores. it seems that some colonies are never satisfied with 'having enough'.
Click to expand...
I would like to hear more of your thoughts about that.
To be "honey bound" seems to me a trait which is enforced by breeding.

I had open honey stores in the broodnest areas throughout the year. But the bees were not "honey bound". Since I´m using dadant, big frames, I believe they place more fuel for nursing and for heating between the cells.
This would be clever if a colder spell comes and they cluster around the brood combs to keep them warm.

You all have some experience with ferals. Without beekeepers management, would they be "honey bound" ? Maybe only in late spring before swarming.
It would be interesting to see how much they would forage after swarming without any limited space to stores and with a good flow.
 
#46 ·
i have only experienced this a couple of times and it was after swarming and failure to get a new queen mated (resulting in queenlessness). since the flow is strong at swarming time the brood areas got completely full of honey.

sometimes first year beekeeepers are told to keep syrup on the hive until the bees don't take it anymore. we have had reports of queenright colonies taking the syrup and filling up the brood areas to the point of the queen has no place to lay.

this year i had several new colonies that were started just prior to the dearth that stayed very light on stores and eventually had to be given honey from the heavier hives. they did not engage in robbing, and as mentioned, the only hive that i observed doing some robbing was the heaviest and strongest one.

so overall, my observations don't support the idea that if a colony is good on stores that it has less incentive to engage in robbing.
 
#47 ·
SiWolKe said:
I read yesterday in the bee journal that we have 30 locations in germany where feral bees are found. If they are ferals is checked now. they will publish a map. I hope there are some near me!
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i apologize if you have already spoken to this sibylle, but do your regulations prohibit the collecting of a feral colony from a tree or shack? (we call it doing a 'cut out' here)...

and is the placing of swarm traps near these feral bees prohibited?

doing these things is the way that david (riverderwent) was able to build up his treatment free apiary. (i think you know this already, but i post so that others following the threads can benefit)
 
#48 ·
Discussion starter · #49 ·
squarepeg said:
i apologize if you have already spoken to this sibylle, but do your regulations prohibit the collecting of a feral colony from a tree or shack? (we call it doing a 'cut out' here)...

and is the placing of swarm traps near these feral bees prohibited?

doing these things is the way that david (riverderwent) was able to build up his treatment free apiary. (i think you know this already, but i post so that others following the threads can benefit)
Click to expand...
The law is you have to let the registrated "swarm catcher" do this. If people discover a swarm on their property they often are very scared or they believe them to be wasps. They call the fire brigade ( who calls the swarm catcher) or the police, but if they know about you being a beekeeper they call you.

So I distributed some flyers in my direct area about swarms being mine :)D) possibly and I would help them.
If you are called you may take the swarm. If the swarm is not followed by the former owner you may take it.

Our law says to not distribute brood sickness, mostly AFB. If AFB is found, they start a restricted area and all hives in this area are checked. So you are not allowed to bait bees or leave an open box with comb around.

But that´s the law.....what´s reality?

Where I have my AMM there is a natural habitat with a strict law not to take anything, flora or fauna. I have not discovered a swarm of ferals yet but this I would not take but call the ranchers.
Maybe my bees will be the first ferals locating there!
 
#50 ·
understood sibylle, and thank you for explaining that so well.

a swarm trap does not have to be placed in the restricted area, only near it...

and if empty comb is the problem with trapping it is not 100% necessary have to have comb in a trap for it to work. ;)

but if trapping is not allowed, or if you are not lucky enough to get called if a swarm is seen, then hopefully you can at least place your virgins near these locations that you might get some drone contribution.

are you still hearing 'music' in all of your hives?
 
#51 ·
I didn't hear any music out of one of my hives the other day. It has a migratory top and there's a few plastic frames in there which always get attached to it. I crack the lid and start prying frames loose and well, lets just say the music started then and I wasn't a fan of the tune they were playing.
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
squarepeg said:
understood sibylle, and thank you for explaining that so well.

a swarm trap does not have to be placed in the restricted area, only near it...

and if empty comb is the problem with trapping it is not 100% necessary have to have comb in a trap for it to work. ;)

but if trapping is not allowed, or if you are not lucky enough to get called if a swarm is seen, then hopefully you can at least place your virgins near these locations that you might get some drone contribution.

are you still hearing 'music' in all of your hives?
Click to expand...
I just realized that it could be entire possible that those swarms are not for me, coming from treated hives.
Same about my drones, I want them to stay at home and meet my own queens. Well they won´t do that and I have to put up with that. Spread some genes maybe.

My swarms I want for sure! Yes, the boxes must not look like bee hives.;)

I don´t know about the music, I will visit sunday. It is still very frosty and thick fog. Next week should be better and if they are still alive they will do a cleansing flight.

I dragged my boxes with honeycombs outside for the last 3 days to kill the wax moth eggs if there are any. Now inside again.

And I have painted 14 new beehives. Optimistic as I am :)
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
JRG13 said:
I didn't hear any music out of one of my hives the other day. It has a migratory top and there's a few plastic frames in there which always get attached to it. I crack the lid and start prying frames loose and well, lets just say the music started then and I wasn't a fan of the tune they were playing.
Click to expand...
Makes you more beautiful, eh?
As long as they are alive.....
 
#54 ·
squarepeg said:
if empty comb is the problem with trapping it is not 100% necessary have to have comb in a trap for it to work. ;)
Click to expand...
This is very true, as I caught 3 for 3 my first year without comb. Had some used plywood I made swarm traps with and rubbed the inside with beeswax, basically coating it. LGO for attractant. I was pleasantly surprised to catch anything at all as I thought my chances were slim and none not knowing really what was in the area. Try it, you might get lucky.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
I remember last year when I still didn´t had any work space for myself and soldered my foundations into the frames ( my god, please tell me the right term for that!) in my living room.
Suddenly there were all those scouts flying around.....should have had a bait box then. Must be nice to have a bee hive as decoration, why use an observation hive?

If you want to play around a little bit try this:

http://www.homecrossing.de/beespace/?zo

See if you are isolated.
 
#57 ·
Sibylle, there are two ways to attach foundation that are commonly used. One is with wooden wedges that are nailed to the top bar. The other is to apply hot wax in a grooved top bar and quickly press the foundation sheet into the groove so the hot wax solidifies around it. If done properly, it looks like it has been "soldered" into place. This is called "hot waxing" the foundation into place. This is not very original, but says what it does.
 
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#58 ·
dar,

given the fact that sibylle and her friends are in 'expansion mode' with respect to building up their hive counts...

and given that they are in the early phase of selecting for survivor stock...

and if their hive bodies are similar to those large dadants that you have transitioned to...

would there be any merit in them considering the 2 queen set up that you are planning to implement?
 
#59 ·
My reason for using a 2 queen setup is mostly tied around efficiency. If both queens in a hive survive over winter, I can pull one queen to sell and remove the divider joining the colonies so the combined hive makes a crop of honey. If only one makes it, I can remove the divider and voila, I still have a productive hive. With judicious management, this should totally eliminate non-productive colonies and generate a bit of early spring cash flow from queen sales.

This method is viable for Sibylle since it would give her more queens to select from and higher probability that resistant genetics could be stabilized. Care is needed since mating queens can easily wind up at the wrong entrance. I found a simple modification that resolves this problem by placing a large triangular block of wood on the entrance so that bees stay on the correct side. I also painted the front of the hives different colors on the left side and the right side to make it easier to tell which entrance is correct.

Here is the modification kit for standard 12 frame Dadant boxes. https://www.imkertechnik-wagner.de/.../12er-dandant-modifiziert/trennschied-mit-2-keilen-fuer-2er-ablegerbildung.html
 
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#60 ·
that makes great sense dar. my thinking was having more queens would provide more options and some extra cushioning against losses, similar to overwintering nucs but with less equipment.
 
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