[GregV]

I figure I will start this talk for you guys down there - so you can start bragging.

Our local swarms are three months away.

 

[Tennessee's Bees LLC]

Caught one but we are freakishly early for us. Just in some deadout equipment in our shed.

 

[R_V]

caught 2 swarms so far.. somebody else's (or wild) bees on the 8th. my bees on the 17th.

 

[HiveBeetle]

3 caught in traps in the past week. 5 swarms caught elsewhere so far.

 

[hankstump]

I have one, and 3 friends each have one in the past week. Season is on in the Bay Area (SF) I was lucky enough to be home when the one came into my box. It never gets old when they come in.
Phil in Fremont.

 

[HiveBeetle]

1 more yesterday and 1 today.

 

[GregV]

From the local beekeeping chatter I am getting a sniff that some Russian swarms could be in the area this season.
There are many "Russian" packages are being dumped into the area.
The degree of "Russian-ness" of course is to be seen (more likely some mutts sold as "Russians").

Anyways, am excited to trap this season for some strange bees. Mutts are good.
Anticipation of a new fishing season!

 

[R_V]

third swarm caught today

 

[Cyberman]

For those that have swarms leave their new hive soon after capture:

Usually bees leave because the hive seems like an artificial environment to them. People use plastic foundation, etc.
My best success has been using hives that have had colonies in the before and frames that have been used, because they has a bee hive smell.

If you can't do this and you only have a completely new hive, try putting some "Swarm Commander" or lemongrass oil on tops of the frames (Just a few drops).
The Swarm Commander or lemongrass oil is usually what attracted them in the first place and will help keep them in the hive.

 

[GregV]

....
The Swarm Commander or lemongrass oil is usually what attracted them in the first place and will help keep them in the hive.

I don't think SC or LGO will play much role in retaining the swarm in place.
Their significant role is in attracting the scouts to the cavity - but that is where it stands.

If you really want to be retaining swarms in place - well propolised (i. e. primed) dwelling of appropriate volume is the best way.
In cases of brand new traps/hives - melt inside as much propolise as you can afford...
The last few days this is what I have been doing - scavenging propolise from my used equipment for reuse in trapping/home uses.
Propolise alone is a good enough attractant, without SC/LGO on hand.

 

[soarwitheagles]

Caught three swarms here on our property, then missed one large swarm on an almond tree yesterday. Darn, we were moving the last of our colonies with JRG and then JRG saw the swarm on the tree.

I forgot about it this morning and later this afternoon it was already gone.

Lesson learned: Always place a swarm trap or two in the almond orchards when placing bees, and leave them there a week or two after removing your bees!

I left a swarm trap there this afternoon....will see what happens...

 

[gone2seed]

7 boxes out with 4 swarms caught so far including the one in the truck. For those that did not see the FB post, I put a trap mon the truck one evening intending to put it in the woods early the next day. The bees beat me to it the next morning.

 

[beemandan]

I don't think SC or LGO will play much role in retaining the swarm in place.

How sure are you of this?
The reason I ask it that I’ve collected 5 swarms so far this season. I usually bait my box with a dab of lgo but on two of those occasions I didn’t have any with me. In both of those cases the bees abandoned the boxes within an hour. In all three that were baited with lgo the swarms remained intact. In fact, on one of those I didn’t get the queen and the bees still stayed in the box. I realized a week later and gave them a frame with a swarm cell and they are now queenright.

 

[GregV]

How sure are you of this?
The reason I ask it that I’ve collected 5 swarms so far this season. I usually bait my box with a dab of lgo but on two of those occasions I didn’t have any with me. In both of those cases the bees abandoned the boxes within an hour. In all three that were baited with lgo the swarms remained intact. In fact, on one of those I didn’t get the queen and the bees still stayed in the box. I realized a week later and gave them a frame with a swarm cell and they are now queenright.

Well, I am very sure I can attract a swarm to a tree branch using LGO/SC dabbed rag OR just as well an old propolised rag (see - Russian scion).
Heck, you can hang a queen in a cage onto a tree branch and see what happens.
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u94CWpH1oE&feature=youtu.be

Will they stay on that branch?
They sure as heck will try find a better place as a tree branch is the worst possibly "cavity" they can find (no matter how much LGO/SC tries to keep them on the branch).

So again - cavity finding and cavity selection = two different things.
Cavity finding may be followed by the cavity selection, but no guaranty.
These are different things and this is what I have been saying.

So what really keeps them in place - a proper cavity that they like (once they found it).
Old and well used cavity is very good to keep them put.

Now - IF you have no queen, then LGO/SC very well could fool them into thinking they have "something" like a queen.
This is a different case you are talking about - fooling queen-less swarm.

 

[beemandan]

Now - IF you have no queen, then LGO/SC very well could fool them into thinking they have "something" like a queen.
This is a different case you are talking about - fooling queen-less swarm.

The queenless swarm was only one of three that stayed in the box with lgo. And two for two left without lgo.
You have expressed a number of opinions but I’m not sure my experience gives me the same conclusions.
In every case…trapped or collected swarm….I put one frame with drawn brood comb into the box. Even before I started using lgo swarms were drawn to those boxes. I never added any propolis. In my opinion….notice how I said that…..drawn comb and lgo are good attractants. And, I believe…notice how I said that…..contribute to the bees staying. Add a frame of brood….again in my experience….to a collected swarm and they will be locked in place.
But these are only my opinions. I am reluctant to express them as facts and potentially mislead a reader.

 

[GregV]

........
But these are only my opinions. I am reluctant to express them as facts and potentially mislead a reader.

Of course mine are too - opinions.

But again, we discussed many times now..
Here is another case - you attract a large swarm to a little trap.
What happens?
They will likely fly away, no matter how well the LGO/SC you use.
The unfit trap will not keep them (at best, they will settle outside of it).

Finding a trap <> taking the trap.
The trap itself keeps the bees (not LGO/SC).
All I am saying.

This is my opinion and here is why....
Last year I never once put any LGO inside the traps.
I like this method and will continue - hanging the LGO outside of the trap.
This way I never need to second-guess myself was it enough LGO? Did I put too much LGO? Once it is hanging outside - does not matter.
It can be a full bottle LGO hanging outside - does not matter.
The actual habitability of the trap and how bees will like it and how desperate they are - what matters.
Once they find a well primed trap, they switch the attention to it - starting to scavenge the propolise, etc.

Soarwitheagles, btw, posted multiple-times too - how he is placing his LGO/SC bate out side of the traps (I could be wrong, but pretty sure in this; he has plenty of interesting write ups on this).

My very first year trapping I had zero success while having everything done correctly - but one thing - I did not have any primed traps (all brand new plywood).
LGO alone brought me zero swarm retention.
I have not idea of how many times bees found my brand new traps - I am not able to continuously monitor all of my traps for bees finding them.
But for sure, they settled in my traps zero times.

Once I finally got few primed traps/old combs inside, the hits started coming on the same exact spots (which I thought were use-less).

And so again finding a trap <> taking a trap.
LGO/SC is a great method to be sure bees are finding your trap.
Them taking your trap - a next step.

 

[beemandan]

I’m really not trying to be difficult but simply saying that my experience has been totally different.
I bait my traps inside with lgo and have also used swarm commander. I caught ten last year in the same location. The year before I caught 18…same place. Lgo or sc inside the boxes.
I have had swarms move into stored equipment on occasion. No baiting but always some old comb inside. But…it is rare.
In the case here, you and I have evidently had opposite experiences.
I try to be careful when I express my opinions here. I try to explain how I came to my opinions. I ain’t perfect. We have a relatively large audience of newcomers who are likely to buy into our opinions without a second thought if we don’t qualify them. To this day I have people approach me claiming to have had bees but ‘lost’ them. After a little discussion it turns out that they bought into the small cell myth. And then there’s fgmo. To this day! Ideas expressed on the internet can be perpetuated forever, it seems.
As you probably know….it is one of my pet peeves. So, if my experience is different than yours I am likely to challenge you.
Nothing personal.

 

[odfrank]

The only one I have caught this year is embarrassingly small. Less than a cup of bees and a queen. Into a very old box that has always been good bait.

 

[GregV]

....
I bait my traps inside with lgo and have also used swarm commander. I caught ten last year in the same location. The year before I caught 18…same place. Lgo or sc inside the boxes.
.

OK, ........and you keep saying over and over...
Same location.
Same location.
Why are you saying this?
Maybe the location IS important?

IF LGO/SC are such overwhelming swarm attracting AND retaining factors - life should be stupid simple.
Setup your brand new traps on the back porch in a single row and bait them using LGO/SC.
Bees will come and bees will stay.
Bang - you got yourself 10-20 hives in a single setting right on your backyard.

Why even bother with anything else?
Why are we even going around looking for places (IF LGO/SC is the 100% recepie)?

The reality is - the location is also very important in the swarm retention.
I admit - I forgot to list the location as a retention factor.

OK, let me must refer to the printed sources.
For catching swarms into log hives/bee trees by the primitive beekeepers several key factors should be met (Iliasov, 2015/Petrov, 1983).

These factors are:
* location - case by case and are hard to generalize; the log hive/bee tree keepers just have a feel for good locations;
* proximity to water - ideally within 100-200 yards/meters must be a watering place (even a swamp)
* cavity volume - 40 to 80 liters (60 liters maybe the ideal goal)
* height of the cavity from the ground - in a forest setting 10-30 feet off the ground
(again - this is in forest setting, so not re-discuss again; myself, I just set my traps directly on the ground as not much of forests to speak of and open space is a plenty)
* the entrance ideally looking to south-east or approaching to it, and not obstructed

My listed sources have actual numbers to support the factors as significant enough (especially, the sum of all the factors).

These are all important points.
Consider, people actually go into lots of time/labor expense/personal risk to carve a hollow inside a tree on a considerable height.
You don't do tree carving those just for the fun of it, while hanging on up there (AND without a reasonable assurance that bees will move in).

Once the empty cavity is prepared and let to dry for 1-2 years, then they bate it.
They use as a bate:
* old comb
* propolise rubbed
* some plants rubbed by the entrance (catnip, mint).

The people who use bee-trees/log hives have not a slightest idea what the LGO/SC are.
But they are dependent entirely on the swarm trapping business and have been doing this for generations.

 

[soarwitheagles]

Swarms here started coming in about a week ago. They are nearly an entire month later than last year. We are still hoping and waiting for large numbers of swarms to appear soon.

We caught and/or saw 5 swarms last week. Last night we finally housed them into boxes.

Late this afternoon another swarm landed just feet from our front door on a eucalyptus tree. Really strange...it wrapped itself around the tree trunk like clothes and is over 4 feet tall!

Anyone have any clue how we should collect this clothing-like swarm wrapped around this eucalyptus tree? Tonight JRG suggested we simply place a baited box right next to it!

It is beginning to be exciting again!

It's WooHoo instead of BooHoo!