[IAmTheWaterbug]

This over-wintered hive was doing really well in a deep-shim-medium, with 8 FOB in the deep, but hadn't done anything in the medium above it, despite I'd even put some sugar syrup in the medium frames a week before.

So I thought I'd put the queen above a shim and excluder in the medium, expecting that the workers would be compelled follow her up, and she'd lay a few frames, and then I could remove the excluder and they'd use both boxes freely.

I'd planned to go back in after a few days to check on my experiment, but got distracted, and didn't get a chance to look until today, 2 weeks later. There was exactly one bee upstairs in the medium, near the top board. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

She was alive, but barely moving.

The deep was still full of chock full of bees and some emerging brood, but no queen cell that I saw. When I put the lethargic queen in a clip on top of the deep frames, the workers gathered around and seemed happy to see her. After a few minutes she seemed a bit more energized (although still not normal), so I let her out and she went in. I also removed the excluder and shim, so they have more freedom to move around.

I donated a frame of eggs from my other colony, just in case they change their minds and decide to murder her.

I need to remember to let the bees be bees and do their own thing.

 

[ruthiesbees]

If you want to try that again, you'd need to put a couple of mediums in the deep chamber area to get her to lay them up with eggs and then place them back up in the medium box with the queen, and then the bees will follow the brood up there. But in March, it's really too early to be doing those kinds of manipulations unless you are in southern CA or FL. (which I do see you are in CA)

 

[elmer_fud]

oops, the bees told you they did not like that idea

 

[IAmTheWaterbug]

If you want to try that again, you'd need to put a couple of mediums in the deep chamber area to get her to lay them up with eggs and then place them back up in the medium box with the queen, and then the bees will follow the brood up there. But in March, it's really too early to be doing those kinds of manipulations unless you are in southern CA or FL. (which I do see you are in CA)

Where were you 2 weeks ago?

 

[drummerboy]

If the queen survives and hopefully begins laying, you have now provided the colony with an extended brood break, one positive to console.

However; She'll likely not ever be the same, but then again....?

We can assume that the only reason she survived was because workers were meeting/feeding/caring for her 'through' the QE, not the ideal method to restrict a queen imho.

Hoping for the best...lesson learned? Ruthies approach would have had better results, but I completely agree - its kinda early to begin moving things around or restricting queens, even in California.

But what do I know, I'm still at least a month from dandelion bloom...if the snow stops.

 

[IAmTheWaterbug]

We can assume that the only reason she survived was because workers were meeting/feeding/caring for her 'through' the QE, not the ideal method to restrict a queen imho.

This is what puzzles me. There's no way she could have survived for 2 weeks with no support, correct? It's been rainy and cold the last two weeks, and the top board had a lot of condensation on it. And I found here on the top of her frame, right near the top board. At least she wouldn't have died of thirst.

But she would definitely have needed calories, right?

These articles say that a queen can be kept in a cage for a week to 10 days, but that must assume attendants, food, and water.

Other articles say she can survive without food and water for 1-2 days.

She was alive after 2 weeks, so someone must have been feeding her. But if they were feeding her, why didn't they stick around and take care of her properly?

I suppose it doesn't matter since I'll never do this experiment again, but I'm curious.

Hoping for the best...lesson learned? Ruthies approach would have had better results, but I completely agree - its kinda early to begin moving things around or restricting queens, even in California.

But what do I know, I'm still at least a month from dandelion bloom...if the snow stops.

Yes, Southern California is nuts this year. I caught my first swarm, unintentionally, sometime between 1/21 and 1/28. In fact that's the hive that I donated the frame of eggs from, so and it's my only other hive right now, so I'm lucky to have it.

I was rearranging things because I'm worries about swarming. The deep was completely full of bees, brood, and food, and they weren't using the upstairs at all, so I tried my little experiment.

Yes, if she's laying next week and they still haven't moved upstairs, I may try using a couple of medium frames as Ruth suggested.

 

[Gray Goose]

I was rearranging things because I'm worries about swarming. The deep was completely full of bees, brood, and food, and they weren't using the upstairs at all, so I tried my little experiment.

maybe is has been too cold and rainy for the bees to expand the nest.

GG

 

[IAmTheWaterbug]

I checked yesterday, and saw no eggs, but also no queen cells. I did not see queen, but I didn't look that hard. The bees seem well-tempered, and didn't ping me or have much of a roar, despite being a full 10 FOB with (finally) some activity in the medium. I donated another frame of eggs from the adjacent hive in case they need to make a new queen.

If I still see no eggs and no queen cell next week I may have to buy a queen from Hawaii.

 

[Oldtimer]

She was alive after 2 weeks, so someone must have been feeding her. But if they were feeding her, why didn't they stick around and take care of her properly?

The queen would have been attempting to re join the cluster so would have been on the excluder, and getting some attention from the bees when things were warm enough.

But bees do not understand queen excluders. They had the brood nest where they wanted it, no need in their minds to move it, they are expecting the queen to move back among them, not understanding she couldn't.

To me, it's not a good plan to try to "force" bees to do anything. Instead you have to set things up so they "want" to do it. So putting a queen into an empty box over an excluder is unlikely to work. Putting some brood in that box, provided they have enough bees to do it, they think that's where the brood nest is, so they go there. But in your case, the brood nest was somewhere else, so they expected the queen to move back to it.

 

[thill]

I usually run a deep + a medium as the brood nest. Once she lays in the medium, you have "bait" frames of both sizes to use anywhere you need to.

When I add a super over the excluder, I put a bait frame of medium open brood up in the center. The nurse bees immediately follow the brood up into the super, and the rest of the bees follow and draw it out.

Once they start drawing, I put the brood frame back down, or I leave it and let them backfill with honey if its a fairly fresh comb. If they draw really fast, I'll move the bait frame up into the next super and repeat. Works amazingly well during the flow.

I hope your queen makes it, or they supersede with a good, fresh queen.

 

[IAmTheWaterbug]

But bees do not understand queen excluders.

I'm going to amend this to "bees do not understand anything we do to "help" them.

So I checked again today, and still no eggs, although I did get a really strong whiff of "bee hive" when I opened the top.

No queen cell, either.

I donated another frame of eggs from next door. This will be the 3rd frame of eggs I've donated on consecutive weeks.

I think it's almost time to take more drastic measures, like buying a queen or doing a combine.

 

[Gray Goose]

let us know how it goes


GG

 

[Oldtimer]

Best I read things, it's now 13 days since you got her back among the bees. So very hard to know what's up with her.

I have known banked queens to take 2 weeks to start laying again once released in a hive so there may be some hope for her. But of course you don't want to risk that she may never lay again so requeening would solve that.

One possibility would be requeen but put the non laying one in a nuc for a while, just incase you get lucky.