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http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28216810#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

The widespread use of a type of insecticide that has been blamed for honeybee deaths is linked to a marked decline in bird numbers in Europe, a report says.

Imidacloprid, a neonicotinoid chemical, is widely used in agriculture to exterminate pests.

Dutch scientists say their data shows that the chemical is associated with a collapse in common bird species.

But manufacturers argue the evidence of these effects is not substantiated.

Imidacloprid is one of a number of neonicotinoid insecticides introduced in the 1990s as a more environmentally friendly way of dealing with crop pests.
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

But manufacturers argue the evidence of these effects is not substantiated.
Casey Anthony was set free because of lack of evidence (and good lawyers), but...
OJ Simpson was set free because of lack of evidence (and good lawyers), but...
...etc.,.
Dow, Dupont, Monsanto, Bayer (German but a large presence in the US) and others...they've all got *very* deep pockets that hold money and politicians...and a cackle of high-priced lawyers.

...one day the chemicals will come to an end, whether for economic, social, political, scientific/environmental, or other reasons and suddenly all the super-pests will begin their "rise to power" and the bird populations will be inadequate to control them. Insect plagues, anyone?

Ed
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

In 35 years of growing blueberries and loosing most of them every year to the birds, I am astounded this year by a full crop of ripe blueberries that are not being touched by the birds..because there are virtually none.
Put the blame where you will, but something is going on. Maybe not bird deaths, but they have at least moved to greener pastures(Although mine is pretty green :) )

Why, after the same pattern all these year would it change? I don't know. Just my observation.

 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

oh you mean those same old crop bugs we are trying to control, with or without neonics...
Yes, "those same old crop bugs" for which the chemical companies continue to create stronger and more deadly, insidious poisons because the insects continue to adapt to their old pesticide formulas. The weak insects die...the strong live to procreate...the chemical companies create more poisonous chemicals and the cycle repeats itself over again, ad nauseam.
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

In 35 years of growing blueberries and loosing most of them every year to the birds, I am astounded this year by a full crop of ripe blueberries that are not being touched by the birds..because there are virtually none.
Put the blame where you will, but something is going on.
We had to net our blueberries here in MA this year. Bumper crop and far too many birds trying to feed on them. Seeing lots of swallows, bluebirds, etc. No serious depletion here.
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

trying to convince the wife, we spent more than enough this winter feeding birds including the migratory red wing black birds that eat me out of house and home. Nope she brought more seed home today, birds everywhere. Even seeing many of the butterflies that everyone keeps saying are dying off. Now if I could see a few less of the lessor wax moth, I have one yard that I average killing 5-10 a day, they keep flying inside my truck to get at honey supers. now what I'm not seeing alot of this year is bumblebees, we were loaded last year, I assume the winter got many.
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

Plenty of birds in my neck of the woods.
Check out this odd expanding ring that showed up on the radar this morning.
Turned out to be a flock of birds fanning out in all directions as the sun started to rise.

 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

trying to convince the wife, we spent more than enough this winter feeding birds including the migratory red wing black birds that eat me out of house and home. Nope she brought more seed home today, birds everywhere. Even seeing many of the butterflies that everyone keeps saying are dying off. Now if I could see a few less of the lessor wax moth, I have one yard that I average killing 5-10 a day, they keep flying inside my truck to get at honey supers. now what I'm not seeing alot of this year is bumblebees, we were loaded last year, I assume the winter got many.
not seeing many bumbles here either, but lots of native bees.
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

which the chemical companies continue to create stronger and more deadly,
only from the stand point of the chemical company, because beside adapting to the chemical, they are the same old bug. Not stronger, not more deadly, just doing what bugs do, eat crops
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

only from the stand point of the chemical company, because beside adapting to the chemical, they are the same old bug. Not stronger, not more deadly, just doing what bugs do, eat crops
The quote you made of part of my post refers to the poisons that the chemical companies make, not to the "bugs"...the poisons are what I said are made stronger and more deadly...just so we're both on the same page. ;)

Btw, if the bugs adapt to pesticides then how are they the "same old bug"? Something has to have changed about them if they adapt...if they're the same old bug that the chemicals killed when it was first used on them then it should still kill them with no need for a new chemical, shouldn't it? The insects have a physiological change of some sort that allows them to adapt to the poisons.
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

right right right, "super pests", "rise to power", reference to the poison the chemical companies make, right, on the same page now...

The only point where the insect has adapted is to the chemical that has been applied to kill it. And when it does become resistant to that insecticide (or miteicide as applied to honeybees) the pest continues its life exactly as it has. It does not turn into a "super pest", it doesn't start eating more, or becoming more deadly, or more damaging. A Buzz word like "super pest" is used because a word like resistant is boring and it implies we have created an organism worst off than before. The fact is, before we experienced huge crop losses, then were able to control the losses with chemical, and now as the chemical becomes less effective, we are starting to see those same old crop losses just on larger scale now, from that "same old bug"
 

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Re: This may get interestiong, bird decline and neonicotinoid link...

The fact is, before we experienced huge crop losses, then were able to control the losses with chemical, and now as the chemical becomes less effective, we are starting to see those same old crop losses just on larger scale now, from that "same old bug"
Wait a minute... you're saying you had crop losses, then was able to control those losses with chemicals, but now that the chemicals have become less effective the same old bugs are causing losses on a larger scale. I take the new losses to be on a larger scale than the losses incurred prior to using the chemicals to start with....?? :scratch:

I think we could go back and forth on this endlessly, Ian. You know what you think, and I know what I think. Best wishes to you and yours.

Ed
 
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