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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, friends, this is how a community mating yard should look like.
You bring your virgin queen.
You mate her with the desirable drones.
You take her home.
Probably pay some fee (only fair and good business for the mating facility provider).
Pay attention to the ingenues equipment - standard mating nuc cartridges (insert/pull out).
This particular, remote yard is providing solid drone coverage from the certified Carpathian bee source (or certified F1 of that - not exactly sure - did not pay attention as not as significant).

Why none of this simplicity is available in the US?
Time to learn a thing or two.

Watch 5 to 15 - people are bringing their queens to be mated (rest is just talk in Ukrainian).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kmy5N9BB7I

Watch first 15 minutes - people are getting their mated queens back (rest is just talk in Ukrainian).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI8LPy9tM24
 

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This is a really cool video I wish it was subtitled I would like to hear all the details.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No titles, unfortunately.

Look at 8:55-9:00 of the first video above.
See the posted sign.
It says "Gorgan. Highland location of controlled bee mating. Scientific-research center for preservation of the Carpathian bee population. Director Muha Y..... phone #s. etc.....
Smaller signs say:
- NO Trespassing
- Be careful of bees

So, this is how civilized, community open mating locations are done.

PS: an interesting detail in the first video - they are carefully checking the mating cartridges before installing them - this is done to ensure no foreign drones are found in those cartridges (any foreign drone found - must be removed)
 

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I don't speak a word of Ukrainian but I really enjoyed those videos.
Them are some really beautiful dark bees , is it possible to get some queens from this region of the world?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't speak a word of Ukrainian but I really enjoyed those videos.
Them are some really beautiful dark bees , is it possible to get some queens from this region of the world?
I doubt you can get those bees shipped this far (unsure of the legal details either).
There is a waiting line every year from this provider and the queens get sold out before everyone gets them.
Unless you want to pay some $$$ and assume the risks, I guess.
 

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I doubt you can get those bees shipped this far (unsure of the legal details either).
There is a waiting line every year from this provider and the queens get sold out before everyone gets them.
Unless you want to pay some $$$ and assume the risks, I guess.
only way you will get bees into this country is by way of Canada, so you would have to get the queens into Australia, they would have to go through quarantine(not sure how long that is), then have some one in Australia, ship them to Canada, then get somebody in Canada to ship them to you. Not sure how good or how old that queen would be by the time they got here. When Australia was shipping nucs to Calif. that's how some people got queens into the country. sounds pretty simple, I wonder how much the queen would cost?
 

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Why none of this simplicity is available in the US?
That's easy, most US beekeepers (hobiests) don't care and don't take genetics any father then "should I by a package with a X or Y queen"
You can't get them to under stand why quality matters, why they should graft, The majority of them just split what ever and make E-cells. a queen is a queen is a queen to them. You will be hard pressed to convince them to pay what it takes to maintain a mating station... much less to even do what it takes to get a virgin in a mini nuc free of drones and transport it to a station.

The next step up is the "mine are better" beekeepers who for some reason feel there shallow gene pool of a dozen or 2 hives made by spiting what lives is some how genetically superior to the commercial base stock it derived from, this is common with the TF crowd.. and in some cases its true! but more then often not... they aren't going to pay either

Seems like when people get big enuf to care they are big enuff to set up there own drone saturation program, or spend a few grand on a II rig and training

That and US beekeepers can't get along.... try to do a "club" project... I have, it usually ends in frustration.
and then of corse "what kinda" of bee would you mate... every one seems to thing what ever they like is better.... its easier to get people to rally around "native" stocks like in the video and the UK AMM programs.

for what ever reasons we have a large culture difference in the US vs outher places
 

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Discussion Starter #8
only way you will get bees into this country is by way of Canada, so you would have to get the queens into Australia, they would have to go through quarantine(not sure how long that is), then have some one in Australia, ship them to Canada, then get somebody in Canada to ship them to you. Not sure how good or how old that queen would be by the time they got here. When Australia was shipping nucs to Calif. that's how some people got queens into the country. sounds pretty simple, I wonder how much the queen would cost?
Sounds rather complicated to me.
:)

But anyway, my point really was not about getting another queen.
Here is a very simple business model right in front of you - go and do it.
If you have a worthy bee and have access to some secluded location, then setup a community mating yard for profit.
US is supposed to be the leader in innovative commerce.
Time to learn; not preach.
:)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's easy, ......... its easier to get people to rally around "native" stocks like in the video and the UK AMM programs.

for what ever reasons we have a large culture difference in the US vs outher places
I can see that.
Still, there are worthwhile stocks to try this.
Say, Michael Bush with those expensive queens for sale - why not setup a mating station next to that remote summer camp teepee in Nebraska? Those bees are supposed to be of the superior resistance (or so we hear).
If true, why not run a mating station?

Easiest thing to do; collect the mating fee; people can bring their own queens OR get the one from the provider.
This queen shipping business is OK
But I could bring along 20-30 of my own virgins and get them mated there for a fair price (understanding the mating failure risk) - everyone is happy.

In the video #2 above (clients are collecting mated queens) - the operators is asking how their mating went.
Some had 100% success.
Some had 70% success.
Someone said - 50% so far, but still checking.
Some people brought their own nucs with the virgins (that is clearly visible - they are taking them home after mating).
Others used the standard see-through "cartridges".
Some people mated up to 50 virgins; others - just a couple.
Some people drove large distance.
The operator lamented how the international clients could not make it this season - due to the COVID issues.
Really, really simple and great model.
 

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to be fair we have had bees in the US for what like 200 years, how long have they had bees in the Ukraine? 2000 yrs?

And every bee here is imported, there they do have native bees and would likely get some grass roots effort, to keep the species alive, similar to the Buffalo here, down bad then a rebound when folks cared enough to do it.

Also in the Ukraine they realize the Government is not going to "save" the bees they need to on their own. Here we still see the Government as the leader in doing things. perhaps in 1800 years we will be over waiting on the government to do it and we will dive in ourselves.

Different cycles in the country and native vrs non native makes a difference, IMO
we could learn from them and get it started...One community yard in each state.

GG
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So, why have you not set up a mating station and run the business if it's that simple ?
It is very, darn simple - I own no worthy bee and I have no secluded location.
Otherwise, I'd probably not even share the idea until done it myself.

Like I said:
If you have a worthy bee and have access to some secluded location, then setup a community mating yard for profit.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
to be fair we have had bees in the US for what like 200 years, how long have they had bees in the Ukraine? 2000 yrs?

And every bee here is imported, there they do have native bees and would likely get some grass roots effort, to keep the species alive, similar to the Buffalo here, down bad then a rebound when folks cared enough to do it.

Also in the Ukraine they realize the Government is not going to "save" the bees they need to on their own. Here we still see the Government as the leader in doing things. perhaps in 1800 years we will be over waiting on the government to do it and we will dive in ourselves.

Different cycles in the country and native vrs non native makes a difference, IMO
we could learn from them and get it started...One community yard in each state.

GG
Well, the imported Russian mutts from the Russian Far East are a very young formation (200 years at most from the origination - pretty much random, unplanned origination too) - this is the same as most any American import.
They are for sale in the US as-if something very native to the Old World - NOT.
Those Russians are very raw and recent mutts, in fact.

No need to look at the Old World.
It is fine to create own, local populations here.
UP MI, btw, is a very attractive place, GG - for a summer mating station somewhere in those woods.
 

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Well, the imported Russian mutts from the Russian Far East are a very young formation (200 years at most from the origination - pretty much random, unplanned origination too) - this is the same as most any American import.
They are for sale in the US as-if something very native to the Old World - NOT.
Those Russians are very raw and recent mutts, in fact.

No need to look at the Old World.
It is fine to create own, local populations here.
UP MI, btw, is a very attractive place, GG - for a summer mating station somewhere in those woods.
Yep food for thought.

I already have the fee schedule worked out, 1-4 Queens mated a 6 pack of my favorite beer. 5 -15 queens a 12 pack and 16 and over a case.


seems that would cover some needs,, during my retirement......

just need some little drone shirts,, "will mate for beer"

GG
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yep food for thought.

I already have the fee schedule worked out, 1-4 Queens mated a 6 pack of my favorite beer. 5 -15 queens a 12 pack and 16 and over a case.


seems that would cover some needs,, during my retirement......

just need some little drone shirts,, "will mate for beer"

GG
And of course, I get special treatment!
OK, fine, will bring some local brew.
Should work for me - fine driving distance from here; drop my queens; picnic there; get back home (then repeat the same and get my queens back).
LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I don't know what you mean by this.
A cartridge-nuc price?
The link you posted - ~$20 is a good price for a multi-use equipment.
If you observe the video carefully, they have many variations of this same cartridge (one was exactly from your link; I noticed 3-4 different variants).
Other maybe home-made - just to the same spec.
The containers that hold two of these cartridges were probably cut to work with this particular spec.

Some people just brought their own entire mating nucs - that can be clearly seen.
They just set them up onto the empty slots.
Heck, I could bring my own foam nucs just the same and keep equipment cost low.
Of course, the equipment should be robust so that the mating site operator is not concerned looking after it (I'd require this).

So the equipment pricing is one thing and is totally up to the customer.
The mating fee - is the other thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Another interesting observation.
Those mating nucs and the drone units are sitting next to each other.
No one is concerned that the virgins will fly elsewhere and find some other, remote drones (OR even go un-mated).
I wonder how true is this entire theory of the queens flying farther away than the local drones will (so to avoid mating with the local drones).

For this mating station to work, the virgins should be mating the local drones (or go un-mated).
OR the mating entire scheme is fake IF to believe the theory that the "queens fly far and the drones fly close".
Wonder what gives.
 

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price per nuc/queen put on site to mate out, ie mateing fee


Wonder what gives.
isolation from outher drone sources in a mt valley and drone saturation

Heck, I could bring my own foam nucs just the same and keep equipment cost low.
bad plan, I don't think any reasonable operator would alow it, no easy way to inspect for drones
 

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