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the realty is if they are motivated and educated even someone starting with a package could be queen rearing by mid summer.

If your not grafting, your not even trying
I'm willing to try, and planning to this coming season.

What would you say would be a good plan to go from package to queen rearing in one summer?
Or at least a few steps, like how much to build up first, how many or few cells to aim for, etc?
It seems like getting comb drawn in time would be an issue.
 

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Those are the Aritaki packages in the photo you posted. The Kintail packages from NZ look a bit more traditional. They are made out of cardboard with plastic screen, feed can with gel in the center. FYI, they do well, even if you hive them in the snow. This photo is from March 8 hiving packages in the snow.

View attachment 61536
Why are you still importing packages? Queens to broaden the genetics of the operation I understand, but why
the packages?
 

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Why are you still importing packages? Queens to broaden the genetics of the operation I understand, but why
the packages?
Well, you have it kind of backwards. We have folks that have done genetic analysis of the queens brought into Canada from various sources, and the conclusions from that are the queens from NZ narrow the gene pool, they don't broaden it.

The business case for the NZ packages in March here on Vancouver Island is pretty strait forward. Our mild spring climate means we can take the NZ package at a time when the rest of the country is still buried in snow, and sometimes we are too. If you have a package first week of March onto drawn comb then give them a patty and some warm syrup they will continue to need some feed thru the first round of brood and will be self sustaining by April. By mid April they will have a box full of bees, put on a second and it will be full of bees by mid May. At that time you split them into two nucs which get bundled up and sold into the prairies (Alberta, Manitoba) to help folks recover from winter losses. Then take the bees you have left, put them into an area of decent forage for the summer, they build out a box and fill it with honey. Extract the honey, store the frames, then the following year put a package onto those drawn frames in early March. In a nutshell, it's the folks out on the prairies that usually need the bees, and folks here will do a 2:1 expansion on them while the prairies are still buried in snow.
 

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Well, you have it kind of backwards. We have folks that have done genetic analysis of the queens brought into Canada from various sources, and the conclusions from that are the queens from NZ narrow the gene pool, they don't broaden it.

The business case for the NZ packages in March here on Vancouver Island is pretty strait forward. Our mild spring climate means we can take the NZ package at a time when the rest of the country is still buried in snow, and sometimes we are too. If you have a package first week of March onto drawn comb then give them a patty and some warm syrup they will continue to need some feed thru the first round of brood and will be self sustaining by April. By mid April they will have a box full of bees, put on a second and it will be full of bees by mid May. At that time you split them into two nucs which get bundled up and sold into the prairies (Alberta, Manitoba) to help folks recover from winter losses. Then take the bees you have left, put them into an area of decent forage for the summer, they build out a box and fill it with honey. Extract the honey, store the frames, then the following year put a package onto those drawn frames in early March. In a nutshell, it's the folks out on the prairies that usually need the bees, and folks here will do a 2:1 expansion on them while the prairies are still buried in snow.
Poor choice of words on my part.
I mean importing into your operation ANY desirable queens to make a better bee, that have a different gene pool, not necessarily NZ ones and not necessarily in early spring. The genetic squeeze is on on the Vancouver Island then isn't it?

I see your model now, we accomplish the same with overwintered nucs and on nearly the same schedule. Most years any healthy colony that came through winter can be split by mid May, isn't that the case? Grafted queens are ready then too. What do those NZ tube bees cost?
When does your swarm season begin?

Do you do any queen rearing, say from a II queen or breeding from selected stock with your model?
 

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Poor choice of words on my part.
I mean importing into your operation ANY desirable queens to make a better bee, that have a different gene pool, not necessarily NZ ones and not necessarily in early spring. The genetic squeeze is on on the Vancouver Island then isn't it?

I see your model now, we accomplish the same with overwintered nucs and on nearly the same schedule. Most years any healthy colony that came through winter can be split by mid May, isn't that the case? Grafted queens are ready then too. What do those NZ tube bees cost?
When does your swarm season begin?

Do you do any queen rearing, say from a II queen or breeding from selected stock with your model?
Msl, Vape heads. Now is that name calling. Well keeping my bees alive by being a vape head suits me fine, Oh breaking the EPA rules that were set by experts who have never used the sytems that they are giving their expert advice on. I also have noticed a post om Bee-l in the last few days where one of the persons remarks that he has vaped the sh--t out of his bees this year and they have never looked better. I mention this as a number of Bee-l gave me a difficult time when I recommended OAV treatments around 14 times a year so some things seem to change after 3 or 4 years but with goverment agencies the more things change the more they stay the same.
 

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Msl, Vape heads. Now is that name calling.
I agree, it is, as I said
Kinda of comes with the territory when trying to make a point about (perceived or real) negative behaviors.
The point you have made in the past still stands (An yes I took note of it!!)... OAV is short acting and doesn't get mites in the brood, just like thymol, amatraiz, hops .... So what's the difference on resistance if you are treating every few days manually vs a extended release over a month +

I don't think anyone has harmed their bees by vaping the crap out of them....But there is the whole honey crop thing, etc.. and well every time we have relied on a single chemical the mites have thwarted us.. and thats the real issue... I know people say can't/won't even thow we don't know what the mode of action is

European bees were introduced to japan in 1876, mites making the jump from AC to AM in japan weren't seen till 1957..it took them 80 years,but they eventually found a way (I wonder if any one has documented them making the jump to bumble bees in the us and how long that took)


Haven't seen you around as much this year, hope you are well, your presence has been missed
 

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'Bee haver' is a term long established in the beekeeping community to describe the 'hands off' approach, it's been around much longer than I have. It is not necessarily a dergatory term.
I think when George Imrie made the term popular, it was intended to be derogatory.

Greg's bees die from PPBK. It is that simple.
Y'all need to remember that GregV raises bees as a food product for himself and his family. He can not and will not ever treat.
 

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Well, you have it kind of backwards. We have folks that have done genetic analysis of the queens brought into Canada from various sources, and the conclusions from that are the queens from NZ narrow the gene pool, they don't broaden it.

The business case for the NZ packages in March here on Vancouver Island is pretty strait forward. Our mild spring climate means we can take the NZ package at a time when the rest of the country is still buried in snow, and sometimes we are too. If you have a package first week of March onto drawn comb then give them a patty and some warm syrup they will continue to need some feed thru the first round of brood and will be self sustaining by April. By mid April they will have a box full of bees, put on a second and it will be full of bees by mid May. At that time you split them into two nucs which get bundled up and sold into the prairies (Alberta, Manitoba) to help folks recover from winter losses. Then take the bees you have left, put them into an area of decent forage for the summer, they build out a box and fill it with honey. Extract the honey, store the frames, then the following year put a package onto those drawn frames in early March. In a nutshell, it's the folks out on the prairies that usually need the bees, and folks here will do a 2:1 expansion on them while the prairies are still buried in snow.
Most years any healthy colony that came through winter can be split by mid May, isn't that the case? Grafted queens are ready then too. What do those NZ tube bees cost?
When does your swarm season begin?
 

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Most years any healthy colony that came through winter can be split by mid May, isn't that the case? Grafted queens are ready then too. What do those NZ tube bees cost?
When does your swarm season begin?
For sure. There are operations further north interior BC that do just that using their own stock filling orders to Alberta. They claim about a 10% winter loss so don't have a need to fill boxes with packages. Van Island has gone a different way using packages and imported queens. Those packages aren't cheap.
 

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For sure. There are operations further north interior BC that do just that using their own stock filling orders to Alberta. They claim about a 10% winter loss so don't have a need to fill boxes with packages. Van Island has gone a different way using packages and imported queens. Those packages aren't cheap.
Thanks for the response.
I figured there was more than one path to take and one that also made some business sense given the time frame involved.
Still, I'm curious where the queens for all these new splits come from? are they BC grafted and mated?
 

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Van Island relies on imported queens from outside of the country, while mainland up country, they use their own summer queens overwintered as nucs and their spring queens that are ready in time to ship as nucs to Alberta. They seem to manage just fine using their own stock.
 

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Van Island relies on imported queens from outside of the country, while mainland up country, they use their own summer queens overwintered as nucs and their spring queens that are ready in time to ship as nucs to Alberta. They seem to manage just fine using their own stock.
Just as I thought.

How do the homegrown queens fair in the prairies? are they preferred?
One last thing, what is the cost of those NZ tube bees in March?
Thanks.
 

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Just as I thought.

How do the homegrown queens fair in the prairies? are they preferred?
One last thing, what is the cost of those NZ tube bees in March?
Thanks.
From what I've heard they are happy enough with them. As far as NZ packages. Sellers haven't listed the prices this year yet. Probably due to covid. Previous year there was issue in getting enough packages due to covid but priced some where around $250 to $280. I don't use NZ bees so its not something i pay much attention to.
For what it's worth there are some larger operations on the prairies that are basically self sustained using their own stock. Saskatchewan comes to mind.
 

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$250 to $280 in what dollars? US, NZ, CA?
Thanks again.

"Saskatchewan comes to mind."
Yes it does.
 
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