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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just did a inspection well a half inspection. On two frames i found queen cells, one is almost dead center on a frame and on another frame i found another queen cell on the bottom of the frame (swarm cell) both cells have larvae with jelly in them. They have not drawn out the entire brood box and they have a entire honey super not drawn out on them as well, i thought the added space would stop the swarming instinct. I am at a loss for what to do. I have brand new honey super still in the box. How do i get them to get into the honey super?
 

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Sounds to me like you have too much free space and they are trying to supercede the queen. Those aren't necessarily related other than a poor queen will be slow to fill out a box. I'd take the super off and let them draw the 2nd box. Also let them raise a queen. I assume from you tone this is a 1st year hive/package.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There is no second box. They are in a single brood box. I check last weekend and they where fine now they are ready to swarm,100% pure jerk move. This is my first ever confirmed swarm cell with a larvae and jelly in it. I was thinking of removing the honey super.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have another brood box on order should arrive Monday, so i am praying they wait til i can split them for some reason i am extremely anxious.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I do not understand tho, they have not drawn out all frames from the brood box? they also did not drawn out the honey super. part of me thinks they do not like the frames i gave them which was cell rite from mann lake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It was waxed, but it took them FOREVER to draw out one. the box i got on order is no plastic.
 

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The problem with these types of posts is that without a complete description of your inspection it is impossible to know why you have new queen cells. If you are in PA then this Spring has not been a normal swarming season as here in Upstate NY. Most hives are a bit more stressed than normal. I had a supercedure in a hive last week. Four scattered queen cells. One hatched and successfully mated and the others were desposed of as soon as they hatched. The tell for supercedure was the lack of new eggs even with capped brood. If I were in your situation I wouldn’t modify the amount of space and study what they are up to. Learning is sometimes worth a swarm or two happening from time to time.
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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I hope you are not still thinking of splitting this hive. Remove the super and reposition the frames in the hive body to put the brood in the center with an undrawn frame next to it on both sides and a partially drawn frame outside of those. Do not split up the actual brood frames though yet. Put a feeder on the hive and feed like crazy. You need to get comb drawn and they won't do it the way things are going. Once you have at least 7 of the frames fully drawn you might be able to put a second box on, but that really depends on your bee density which I suspect is rather low.

The bees took to the Acorn plastic foundation I put in my supers but I use foundationless in the brood chambers. The bees draw them out in no time if they have a laying queen and with a little maneuvering, I can get the entire box done in under a month with feed or a flow. And, it is cheaper than buying foundation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So the queen according to the beekeeper i got the nuc from is a Carniolan/Italian cross. She is extremely like extremely finicky, if there isnt a certain thresh hold of food she will stop laying, i am talking laying like 30 eggs in the whole hive. Well last weekend i did a inspection (removed 5 out of the 10 frames and saw no eggs, very little eggs and low amounts of capped brood.) So i gave her a 2 inch by 2 inch pollen patty and a quart of 1:1 sugar water. not more then a day later palms started blooming. The hive was going ballistic which was great, i checked 4 out of 10 frames this afternoon and saw 2 queen cells, one dead center on a half drawn out frame and another cell on a different frames on the bottom, i didn't go any father because of two reasons first one was in my amazing wisdom i got a none ventilated bee jacket (i live in central Florida and it was 100 degree and 75% humility) and second reason is when i saw the queen cell on the bottom i remember that means trouble. Also both cells had a larvae in royal jelly. I check the same frames today as i did last weekend.
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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How many bees are in the hive? Count the frames covered in bees. My guess is what four to five frames? Do not count frames that only have a hundred or so bees on them.

A supercedure cell does not spell trouble, quite the opposite. It means the bees have perceived a problem and are fixing it. You need to let them.

You also may need to tough it out and drink plenty of water so you can do a proper inspection. Shouldn't take more than 10 min. in a single story hive. You are looking for amount of drawn comb, eggs, larvae, and brood pattern, and maybe the queen. Check for additional cells and be very careful with those frames since they are your hive's future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I hope you are not still thinking of splitting this hive. Remove the super and reposition the frames in the hive body to put the brood in the center with an undrawn frame next to it on both sides and a partially drawn frame outside of those. Do not split up the actual brood frames though yet. Put a feeder on the hive and feed like crazy. You need to get comb drawn and they won't do it the way things are going. Once you have at least 7 of the frames fully drawn you might be able to put a second box on, but that really depends on your bee density which I suspect is rather low.

The bees took to the Acorn plastic foundation I put in my supers but I use foundationless in the brood chambers. The bees draw them out in no time if they have a laying queen and with a little maneuvering, I can get the entire box done in under a month with feed or a flow. And, it is cheaper than buying foundation.
The guy i got the bees from told me not to go back into the hive for fear of them swarming early or absconding. he also advised me to split the hive. The frame positioning is certainly not the way you described. I am fearful of making them honey bound when i feed and i see nectar in the brood box. The hive density appears to be high but i could be completely wrong which on this hive i am bowling a 1 ( my only positive score is getting them LOL). This hive for me has been a giant learning curve the two hives i had in Ma where nothing like this hive.
1561258882722.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
How many bees are in the hive? Count the frames covered in bees. My guess is what four to five frames? Do not count frames that only have a hundred or so bees on them.

A supercedure cell does not spell trouble, quite the opposite. It means the bees have perceived a problem and are fixing it. You need to let them.

You also may need to tough it out and drink plenty of water so you can do a proper inspection. Shouldn't take more than 10 min. in a single story hive. You are looking for amount of drawn comb, eggs, larvae, and brood pattern, and maybe the queen. Check for additional cells and be very careful with those frames since they are your hive's future.
Ya you are about right between 4 to 6 frames. I do go slowly with the inspection, i need to speed it up. Sometimes i am looking for eggs i have never seen egg in the cell.
 

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OK so now we know it is a carniolan nuc you bought, and there might be more than 2 queen cells because you didn't check the whole thing.

That could change some of the advice you been given.
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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Until we know more, I am still leaning toward supercedure. Could be wrong though.

Both of the far outside frames are almost always honey. The next frame over should be a mix of both honey and pollen and maybe a small amount of brood. The six frames in the center should be almost all brood with a little honey in the corners. As the brood nest expands, you can position the frames in their appropriate locations. You should be concerned with the hive getting honey bound from feeding only if you see the center of the active brood nest filling up. It could also indicate swarm prep so you have to look at other signs as well.

Don't worry so much about seeing eggs, look for the small pools of blueish white royal jelly that surround young larvae. Get good at finding them and know they were eggs just three and a half days ago. Also, eggs will usually be in the apparently empty cells next to new larvae.

Please let us know what the hive looks like tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So there is enough bees to fill frames solid. I took the super off and nothin is in it but a few bees so I placed it a distance away from the hive to get the bees to fly out of it. They appeared to have destroyed one of the queen cells. However, I found 3 more. 1 with a egg in it no jelly yet, God eggs are tiny little things. 1 that looks close to being capped and another that is capped, those two are next to each other. Now if they did indeed swarm because I didnt find the queen it was a very small swarm because the population didnt seem to go down. I found 1 frame with a very good amount of capped brood, 1 with some larvae and another with a mix and yet another with a handful of capped and larvae. I placed all of those in the middle of the box, then I arranged the rest as you suggested.

Now the bigger issue is if I did get a superceded queen I do not want to let nature goes its course because there has been confirmed AHB within 15 miles of my house. Now I have to call the beekeeper and let him know I did exactly what he said not to do LOL. I could blame you guys but I do not feel that would work LOL.
 

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100:1 probability (jmho) that colony is not preparing to swarm.

bad queen, and they are superceding.

if you just purchased the queen your supplier owes you a new one. (again, jmho)
 
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