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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 2 double deep hives full of bees and food and heading into canadain winter. Supposing they come out the other side of winter and build up to a strong hive, Then I will want make at least one nuc, and maybe too.

I was planning to buy to 4 frame nuc boxes and put soild bottoms in them and drill a hole for an entrance, and put in a frame of honey a frame of brood, a fram with eggs and a frame of foundation and let them raise thier own queen. Does anyone splitt hives like that? do I have the techinque right for doing it?
 

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You can certainly do it that way. A lot of people don’t care for the emergency queens that are produced from that method, but, if you come back into the hives 4 days after the split and tear down any Queen cells that are capped (so long as there are some that aren’t), you can improve your odds of getting a decent Queen so long as all other conditions are met (nutrition, warmth, enough drones flying to get a queen properly mated, etc.).
 

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I have 2 double deep hives full of bees and food and heading into canadain winter. Supposing they come out the other side of winter and build up to a strong hive, Then I will want make at least one nuc, and maybe too.

I was planning to buy to 4 frame nuc boxes and put soild bottoms in them and drill a hole for an entrance, and put in a frame of honey a frame of brood, a fram with eggs and a frame of foundation and let them raise thier own queen. Does anyone splitt hives like that? do I have the techinque right for doing it?
I find that way to not work well.

I take the queen and 1 frame of sealed brood and 1 frame of stores away from the strong hive.
place in new box, fill with frames, couple comb if you have them, and place on the old stand, moving the rest of the hive away.
In 9 days open this rest of the hive and make 2 or 3 splits, depending on how many frames have Queen Cells.

the more bees in the hive making cells the better.
2 or 3 frames of bees make poor cells, 20 frames do better.
once made there could be several, a day or 2 before hatching is a better time to make the hive into NUCs less days to have a cool night and get chilled.

good luck

GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Gray goose when you set up the existing queen with the sealed brood and honey, do you place them in a 10 frame box? Or a nuc box? By placing that box in the original spot it gets all the field bees back right?
 

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Gray goose when you set up the existing queen with the sealed brood and honey, do you place them in a 10 frame box? Or a nuc box? By placing that box in the original spot it gets all the field bees back right?
yes a 10 frame as 1/3 of the bees will go back to the oriented location, do not make it too small.

GG
 

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You'll get better queens, and more honey if you make the hive queenless and give the queen to the nuc. If you time it to two weeks before the main honey flow it will maximize the effect. The problem with letting a weak nuc raise a queen is that queen will not be fed well and that has more to do with the quality than any other one factor. Manipulations such as this are why emergency queens get a bad reputation. A poorly fed queen is a poorly fed queen by whatever method. A well fed queen is a good queen by whatever method.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok, I know that some people seem to let the nucs raise the queen, and some let the hive raise the queen but I didn’t know why or how one way would be better than the other. I guess that is why some people also split the double hive and let one box raise a queen and one box keep the queen. A box full of bees would raise a better queen.
 

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Ok, I know that some people seem to let the nucs raise the queen, and some let the hive raise the queen but I didn’t know why or how one way would be better than the other. I guess that is why some people also split the double hive and let one box raise a queen and one box keep the queen. A box full of bees would raise a better queen.
right and 2 boxes of bees raise even better Queen(s) then pre hatch you can make as many Nucs as there are resources to.

GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I was watching a video where the fellow made a split with the existing queen. He took 4 frames and the queen and put them in a 10 frame box with a frame feeder and put it in a different spot. He called them an artificial swarm. And then he let the hive raise the queen. So if I can do that do I ever need a nuc box? Or do I just need 10 frame boxes? Remember that the most I want is 6 hives
 

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If you don’t mind hefting 10 frame equipment, then no reason to have an apiary full of different sized equipment, imo. You can always use follower boards, insulated or otherwise, if the bees need a smaller space than a 10 frame box. You can also run a groove down the middle of your boxes to put a divider in and run side by side nucs. Definitely no inherent need to have 5 frame equipment.
 

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I like to split my colonies and do walkaway splits at my first swarm date (15 April) in mid Missouri. I have used 2 frames of bees in the past, but I found that I had about 30% failures with this method. Now I use 3 frames of brood 1 frame of honey/pollen and 1 empty frame. I have 90% success rate with this method. Mostly I just move the frames of bees without the queen. This year I had 1 split where the queen must have been in the split. This had 3 frames of brood and this colony gave me 1 medium box of honey. The other queenless box with 5 frames of brood built up stronger than most of the other splits.

You said that you wanted ONLY 6 colonies. Does this have to be next year? I expect my colonies to double each spring, less 10-20% for failures as you get more colonies. You will be closer to your goal next year and surpass it the following year. Then you can add selling splits from your apiary. Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I like to split my colonies and do walkaway splits at my first swarm date (15 April) in mid Missouri. I have used 2 frames of bees in the past, but I found that I had about 30% failures with this method. Now I use 3 frames of brood 1 frame of honey/pollen and 1 empty frame. I have 90% success rate with this method. Mostly I just move the frames of bees without the queen. This year I had 1 split where the queen must have been in the split. This had 3 frames of brood and this colony gave me 1 medium box of honey. The other queenless box with 5 frames of brood built up stronger than most of the other splits.

You said that you wanted ONLY 6 colonies. Does this have to be next year? I expect my colonies to double each spring, less 10-20% for failures as you get more colonies. You will be closer to your goal next year and surpass it the following year. Then you can add selling splits from your apiary. Good Luck!
Thanks for your answer, I only want 6 colonies total..... eventually... I wanted to set a goal and a limit, lol . I get a little obsessed sometimes, I Have two colonies now, and I am hoping to set up another one this spring, if my bees survive the winter. I am thinking that 6 hives will supply my family with honey and a few bottles for Christmas Presents. So you let the nucs raise the queens? in stead of the main hive? I bought a 10 frame deep that I am going to put a 3/4" pine divider in and that should give to -two- four frame nuc boxes. When you take a nuc off a hive like that, will the hive still give you honey that year? or does it weaken the hive so much that there is no honey?
 

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First year colonies from packages or nucs rarely give you honey the first year. The saying is you can either raise bees or honey, not both. Each of these colonies will probably give you 40 pounds. That's 1 and 1/2 five-gallon buckets. Is that enough for you and your family? Just kidding! I use 1/4" plywood as a divider, but I make my own wooden ware and I put grooves in the box before I assembled them. This really only lets me use them as 4 frame nucs. As a retrofit you can use 1/2" plywood. It's cheaper! Still only 4 frame nucs but that's ok. Put your entry holes on either side of the box and the bees will still go into the right entrance. As I mentioned, the 1 split that had the second-year queen made a super of honey, that's 40 pounds. The other half has to make a new queen and will not make honey for you, only bees. You asked Grey Goose if you need to move them. I put the split right next to the parent colony and the field force goes back to the parent colony. If you switch the original and the nuc the field force will go into the nuc, lots more field force for the nuc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
First year colonies from packages or nucs rarely give you honey the first year. The saying is you can either raise bees or honey, not both. Each of these colonies will probably give you 40 pounds. That's 1 and 1/2 five-gallon buckets. Is that enough for you and your family? Just kidding!
So one medium super will hold 40 lbs of honey? the one and half five gallon pails, is that from one hive? or from the 6 hives? maybe I don't need 6 hives.
 

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I managed to extract a medium super from new colonies started from 5 frame nucs one year but that was an exceptionally good year. If you do not have drawn comb in supers and start from a 5 frame nuc, I would not expect honey the first season and in colder climates you probably would have to feed additional sugar syrup to have stores up to levels needed for wintering. I dont know how different my weather would be compared to New Brunswick. Local forage opportunities can vary wildly even on locations a few miles apart. The honey yields in article below would likely be for established colonies and drawn comb in honey supers

12012 Industry Survey, Bee Culture Magazine

United States Honey Production Up 3 Percent for Operations with Five or More Colonies in 2016

United States honey production in 2016 from producers with five or more colonies totaled 162 million pounds, up 3 percent from 2015. There were 2.78 million colonies from which honey was harvested in 2016, up 4 percent from 2015. Yield of honey harvested per colony averaged 58.3 pounds, down 1 percent from the 58.9 pounds in 2015.
 
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