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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello beekeepers!

I have two overwintered hives, both single brood chamber. I’m starting to think about future splits when weather kicks into gear.

Should I build up second deep on top and then add that to the split (with existing queen when I see queen cells formed) or just grab resources from the original deep and make a split that way. I should move that box 10+ feet away from that original deep? When can that new split be moved back to the yard, and at what part of the day: early morning or late in the afternoon so that most foragers are back in the box).

Are my assumptions correct?
 

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5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
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there are many ways to do spits, some documented here on BS.
I'll offer on this question.
When can that new split be moved back to the yard, and at what part of the day: early morning or late in the afternoon so that most foragers are back in the box.

(moved back to the yard), in general I do not move my splits "out of the yard" with double screen or cloke boards they are moved to the top of the same stack even. So if you plan to move any hive , loosing some of the foragers is a bummer.
What I do is as follows:
good hour before daylight go out and screen in the hive, I use duct tape and window screen. 14 inch by 4 inch piece of screen, fold at 2 inch to form a 14 inch 90 degree piece, duct tape all around it. the night before is the time to verify there are no other entrances open. Go In for a coffee, load the hive in the back of the truck, drive there straight away. unload place,, remove screen. ideally you are unloaded by 2 hours after dawn, unless the drive is more distant. I did a 4 hour one where I screened them at 4 am and left unloaded by 8:30.

the advantages I see are, early before the morning rush of traffic, cooler, dark so you get most of the field bees.
Midnight works if you cannot in the early AM, but the hive is hotter, and you likely have some bearding. As well as you complete you have light to work with instead of darkness.

GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
there are many ways to do spits, some documented here on BS.
I'll offer on this question.
When can that new split be moved back to the yard, and at what part of the day: early morning or late in the afternoon so that most foragers are back in the box.

(moved back to the yard), in general I do not move my splits "out of the yard" with double screen or cloke boards they are moved to the top of the same stack even. So if you plan to move any hive , loosing some of the foragers is a bummer.
What I do is as follows:
good hour before daylight go out and screen in the hive, I use duct tape and window screen. 14 inch by 4 inch piece of screen, fold at 2 inch to form a 14 inch 90 degree piece, duct tape all around it. the night before is the time to verify there are no other entrances open. Go In for a coffee, load the hive in the back of the truck, drive there straight away. unload place,, remove screen. ideally you are unloaded by 2 hours after dawn, unless the drive is more distant. I did a 4 hour one where I screened them at 4 am and left unloaded by 8:30.

the advantages I see are, early before the morning rush of traffic, cooler, dark so you get most of the field bees.
Midnight works if you cannot in the early AM, but the hive is hotter, and you likely have some bearding. As well as you complete you have light to work with instead of darkness.

GG
Thank you GG, I will do more digging around to find what I'm after.

Do you recommend splitting from two deeps is better than splitting from a single brood deep? Also, to maximize on chances the split succeeds, should I buy a queen to replace?
 

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so what I would do is the following:
build up until dandelion bloom, IMO the question you are asking leads me to think your experience level is insufficient for early splitting, as many more consideration are involved. I do not split by size but but the time of the year, as our places are different bloom days make more sense that dates.

A)pull the Queen and 2 frames of bees, only 1 with about to open brood.
B) the day the ordered Queen arrives

A)Go back into the main Queens less hive in 10 days, look for sealed large queen cells. If there are more than one, you have the option of even splitting into 2 or 3 "NUCs" for better odds, not every cell ends up a laying queen, 3 chances may get you 2 queens.
B) split the hive evenly using the frames of brood, and honey and bees as items to balance leave the old location with the smaller bee population as most of the field bees will go back to this place. In Lieu of the feature, leave the part you remove with slightly lees brood, to keep warm . Add the new ordered queen to the half with out the queen. pull the cork, assuming a candy release. leave for 3 days open check for the cadge empty, remove. go back in in 6 days check for in order, queen or eggs,, queen cells. ideally you have eggs and no QCs, add space as needed. IF no queen no eggs and a QC then the intro failed and they made a QC

A) go back into each split with a cell 30 days after the Queen Cell was spotted and placed in the split. the ones with eggs in a nice pattern should work out. the queen less ones add 1 frame at a time (per day) to the original Queen.


If for example you only had 1 of 3 succeed, do it again, if you got 3 of 3 and are good then build them up
.
every step has room for a problem, these are dealt with reactively.
As well the strength could dictate a slight deviation, I prefer 5-8 frames in a split, so 3 deeps could be 6 way split, 8 frames I would need to be pressed to split, i would likely wait 2 weeks until 10 frame. This is for me in Mich others in different places can do other sizes, I know what I have the best luck/odds with.

the math has reason look at the queen growth timeline, for example the last "B" has queen release in 3 days and egg /Qcell check 6 days later, considering the bees could start a cell with a 2 day old larvae, this check "should" allow you to find a laying queen and an Emergency queen cell the day before it hatches. forcing you to decide what to do. if the queen failed or was killed the E cell could be allowed to hatch, or not ..

the second "A "has a check for multiple cells, prior to cells hatching, again with enough bees this can be split again. learn the queen life math for the first month, so when you see something you know what it means and what you then need to do.


so easier way is order a queen, more challenge way is to grow your own. Or if a certain genetic line is desired then order, or if your bees are hot then order.

use google watch a few Utubes on splitting, if possible find a mentor.

good luck
GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
so what I would do is the following:
build up until dandelion bloom, IMO the question you are asking leads me to think your experience level is insufficient for early splitting, as many more consideration are involved. I do not split by size but but the time of the year, as our places are different bloom days make more sense that dates.

A)pull the Queen and 2 frames of bees, only 1 with about to open brood.
B) the day the ordered Queen arrives

A)Go back into the main Queens less hive in 10 days, look for sealed large queen cells. If there are more than one, you have the option of even splitting into 2 or 3 "NUCs" for better odds, not every cell ends up a laying queen, 3 chances may get you 2 queens.
B) split the hive evenly using the frames of brood, and honey and bees as items to balance leave the old location with the smaller bee population as most of the field bees will go back to this place. In Lieu of the feature, leave the part you remove with slightly lees brood, to keep warm . Add the new ordered queen to the half with out the queen. pull the cork, assuming a candy release. leave for 3 days open check for the cadge empty, remove. go back in in 6 days check for in order, queen or eggs,, queen cells. ideally you have eggs and no QCs, add space as needed. IF no queen no eggs and a QC then the intro failed and they made a QC

A) go back into each split with a cell 30 days after the Queen Cell was spotted and placed in the split. the ones with eggs in a nice pattern should work out. the queen less ones add 1 frame at a time (per day) to the original Queen.


If for example you only had 1 of 3 succeed, do it again, if you got 3 of 3 and are good then build them up
.
every step has room for a problem, these are dealt with reactively.
As well the strength could dictate a slight deviation, I prefer 5-8 frames in a split, so 3 deeps could be 6 way split, 8 frames I would need to be pressed to split, i would likely wait 2 weeks until 10 frame. This is for me in Mich others in different places can do other sizes, I know what I have the best luck/odds with.

the math has reason look at the queen growth timeline, for example the last "B" has queen release in 3 days and egg /Qcell check 6 days later, considering the bees could start a cell with a 2 day old larvae, this check "should" allow you to find a laying queen and an Emergency queen cell the day before it hatches. forcing you to decide what to do. if the queen failed or was killed the E cell could be allowed to hatch, or not ..

the second "A "has a check for multiple cells, prior to cells hatching, again with enough bees this can be split again. learn the queen life math for the first month, so when you see something you know what it means and what you then need to do.


so easier way is order a queen, more challenge way is to grow your own. Or if a certain genetic line is desired then order, or if your bees are hot then order.

use google watch a few Utubes on splitting, if possible find a mentor.

good luck
GG
Thank you for the insightful response. I do have a mentor and watched multiple ways of creating splits but thought that asking additional beekeepers for their opinion would be wise. And yes, I am a second year beekeeper so please excuse my lack of expertise.
 
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