Small Cell &API-LIFE
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3,418 Posts
> is this true?
I think that it would be more accurate to
say that this has been offered as a
possible mechanism behind the claimed
lower mite levels in small-cell colonies.
The problem is that no one has sat and logged the
process of a queen laying eggs on even one
complete side of a frame, and tracked those cells
to emergence on anything other than a hit-or-miss
basis, even though this is something that can be
done with nothing more than an observation hive
and a camera.
> ...I still have to do three treatments
But if your bees are regressed to small-cell
bees, why do you feel the need to treat them
for varroa infestation? I thought that one
of the biggest motivations for regressing
bees was to avoid such treatments.
I think that it would be more accurate to
say that this has been offered as a
possible mechanism behind the claimed
lower mite levels in small-cell colonies.
The problem is that no one has sat and logged the
process of a queen laying eggs on even one
complete side of a frame, and tracked those cells
to emergence on anything other than a hit-or-miss
basis, even though this is something that can be
done with nothing more than an observation hive
and a camera.
> ...I still have to do three treatments
But if your bees are regressed to small-cell
bees, why do you feel the need to treat them
for varroa infestation? I thought that one
of the biggest motivations for regressing
bees was to avoid such treatments.
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629 Posts
I agree with Jim. If you treat then you have no way of knowing if small cell or survivor lines are truly varroa tolerant.
In my survivor yards I have never treated. Just picked up the deadouts ( and there has been plenty which could not handle varroa). After five years the last yard is starting to produce honey and thrive.
Out of around 400 hives started from survivor lines ( over 5 years) only 22 remain but those 22 tolerate varroa without treament.
When I checked a few weeks ago I still had a yellow marked queen (2002), several red (2003),several blue (2005)and one green( 2004).
The rest had been superceded and were unmarked.
They are in an isolated area. They on average keep too small a cluster to use for pollination.
I have lost a bunch of money on the five year project.
I have got a jet black blue dot Russian/Russian queen (2005) which is prolific & varroa tolerant which I am going to use in a breeding program in the spring.
I call her my $4,000 queen ( 400 survivor queens X approx. $10).
My bread & butter hives are headed by prolific Italian bees ( lines I have used over 40 years).
Yes they need varroa control & tracheal mites cause problems which require treatment but they are strong honey producers and pollinators.
Others may have had different luck but above is the final word on my Russian project. You can't sell a three frame cluster of Russian bees into almond pollination.
In my survivor yards I have never treated. Just picked up the deadouts ( and there has been plenty which could not handle varroa). After five years the last yard is starting to produce honey and thrive.
Out of around 400 hives started from survivor lines ( over 5 years) only 22 remain but those 22 tolerate varroa without treament.
When I checked a few weeks ago I still had a yellow marked queen (2002), several red (2003),several blue (2005)and one green( 2004).
The rest had been superceded and were unmarked.
They are in an isolated area. They on average keep too small a cluster to use for pollination.
I have lost a bunch of money on the five year project.
I have got a jet black blue dot Russian/Russian queen (2005) which is prolific & varroa tolerant which I am going to use in a breeding program in the spring.
I call her my $4,000 queen ( 400 survivor queens X approx. $10).
My bread & butter hives are headed by prolific Italian bees ( lines I have used over 40 years).
Yes they need varroa control & tracheal mites cause problems which require treatment but they are strong honey producers and pollinators.
Others may have had different luck but above is the final word on my Russian project. You can't sell a three frame cluster of Russian bees into almond pollination.
Jim&Rob the reason that I am treating is that these are package (Italian bees) that I got this spring 4/2/06 and although I'm regressing them this hive had 40+ mites on A 24hr sticky board test the other hive had 4to7 mites on the same test.Both hives came from the same source this is my first year keeping bees and I don't want to lose one right now if I can help it.Thus the reason I'm treating the bad infested one.
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>I've read that small cell bees emerge at 19 days is this true?If this is true would I still have to do three treatments.
You still have mites in the brood. What are you treating with? Powdered sugar? Oxalic acid? Other?
>The problem is that no one has sat and logged the
process of a queen laying eggs on even one
complete side of a frame, and tracked those cells
to emergence on anything other than a hit-or-miss
basis, even though this is something that can be
done with nothing more than an observation hive
and a camera.
One complete side would be a lot of work, but several of us have done quite a number of cells and all have reported the same results. I've done it on several occasions always with the same results. You are correct, it only requires an observation hive and taking the time to note when the egg was layed, when it was capped and when it emerged. It's not rocket surgery.
>I'm regressing them this hive had 40+ mites on A 24hr sticky board test
If they aren't regressed yet, it might be worth knocking them down, but if you have 40+ in that hive and 4 to 7 in the others, you may want to raise a new queen for the one with 40+. Maybe they are less hygenic or maybe they are not drawing the smaller cells very well. Either way a new queen would probably make a difference.
You still have mites in the brood. What are you treating with? Powdered sugar? Oxalic acid? Other?
>The problem is that no one has sat and logged the
process of a queen laying eggs on even one
complete side of a frame, and tracked those cells
to emergence on anything other than a hit-or-miss
basis, even though this is something that can be
done with nothing more than an observation hive
and a camera.
One complete side would be a lot of work, but several of us have done quite a number of cells and all have reported the same results. I've done it on several occasions always with the same results. You are correct, it only requires an observation hive and taking the time to note when the egg was layed, when it was capped and when it emerged. It's not rocket surgery.
>I'm regressing them this hive had 40+ mites on A 24hr sticky board test
If they aren't regressed yet, it might be worth knocking them down, but if you have 40+ in that hive and 4 to 7 in the others, you may want to raise a new queen for the one with 40+. Maybe they are less hygenic or maybe they are not drawing the smaller cells very well. Either way a new queen would probably make a difference.
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1,647 Posts
>I've done it on several occasions always with the same results.
That doesn't count. The results need to be published in a "peer reviewed journal". hehehehe
That doesn't count. The results need to be published in a "peer reviewed journal". hehehehe
I have invited my peers to review the results by reproducing it and all that have tried have the same results.
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Mike I was thinking along that line that they might not have regressed as well as the other hive has done.They had one hivebody built out within A month and that is my third hivebody now.Where the other hive took over two months to make their first hivebody so thats probley the reason for the high mite count in the one.I'm thinking of next spring of replacing every other frame with A starter strip.And see where it goes from there.The way it looks now is that the only hive body that they have that looks 4;9mm is the third hivebody that they built.
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