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How does use of small cell relate to catching swarms. Will caught swarms have to be regressed? Does that depend on whether they were feral or out of somebody's hive that had regular cell foundation? Is it a bad idea to put a caught swarm directly on small cell foundation?

Also, what would happen if I buy bees that are raised on small cell (such as from Fat/Beeman) and then put them on regular sized foundation?

I'm just starting out and I'm trying to decide whether to start will small cell or not, and these were just some of my random thoughts.

Thanks.
 

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ndvan

welcome to beesource
I learned about SC soon after starting my first hive in 05 and started moving towards it
In my mind, it's a no brainer
it's fairly easy, although it takes some time
the SC foundation only costs a little more
I'm not sure how well it works but some pretty experienced folks say it is a huge help with the mites, so far my bees seem to be doing great
as far as putting SC bees on regular foundation, I can't imagine why somebody would do that
have you seen bwranglers website?

http://bwrangler.litarium.com/

lot's of good info
also Michael Bush's site

http://bushfarms.com/bees.htm

both excellent resources

Dave
 

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Hello,
ndvan, check your pm's.
 

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Local feral survivors in eight frame medium boxes.
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>How does use of small cell relate to catching swarms.

Little.

>Will caught swarms have to be regressed?

That would depend on where they came from of course.

>Does that depend on whether they were feral or out of somebody's hive that had regular cell foundation?

And how many generations from domestic they are. If they are only one, they will only be partially regressed.

> Is it a bad idea to put a caught swarm directly on small cell foundation?

Not at all. It's always an excellent idea to put any swarm, package or other source of bees on small cell foundation. Why would it be a bad idea?

>Also, what would happen if I buy bees that are raised on small cell (such as from Fat/Beeman) and then put them on regular sized foundation?

In one generation you'll undo all the work of regression.

>I'm just starting out and I'm trying to decide whether to start will small cell or not, and these were just some of my random thoughts.

It will save a lot of work to start on it now rather than later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the help. I guess I have more basic questions. What do non-small cell bees do when you put them on undrawn small cell foundation? Drawn small cell foundation?
 

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Unless things have changed, Pierco offers two sizes. They have the comercially popular worker size which I believe is about 5.4 mm and the larger size drone pattern. The bees will eventually accept it but usually not if they have a choice of wax. Their first choice seems to be comb they build on their own without a beek trying to tell them how to do it.
If I put any form of plastic plus any size wax foundation, plus a tiny bead of wax at the top of a frame next to each other in a hive they will draw the empty frame first, then the foundation, then the plastic. Of course this will vary a little depending on the relationship of the comb to the brood nest, the time of year, the nector flow, and the individual colony of bees, but the general trend will be similar. Waxing the plastic and spraying with syrup sometimes helps and sometimes doesn't.
 

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>What do non-small cell bees do when you put them on undrawn small cell foundation?

They usually draw it about 5.1mm

> Drawn small cell foundation?

They use it the same as small cell bees do and a generation of bees later, you'll have small cell bees.

>What is the cell size of Pierco plastis frames?

That depends. The deeps are about 5.2mm and the mediums are about 5.3mm. The sheets are about 5.25mm

>Will SC bees use it?

Of course. But you'll be upsizing them. Large cell bees will use it too with no adjustment since large cell bees happily build 5.1mm.
 

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an interesting side note
I've sent Pierco a couple of emails inquiring if they planed to produce 4.9 mm foundation, with no reply
bees seem to draw the 5.25 sheet beautifully, I wonder what they'd do with 4.9?
would the plastic base prevent them from reworking it?
would they just ignore it?
I would think it would be pretty easy for them to produce and a very popular product if it produced fast regression
did somebody produce 4.9mm plastic foundation in the past?

Dave

[ December 06, 2006, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]
 

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>did somebody produce 4.9mm plastic foundation in the past?

A Korean company makes 4.9mm plastic and Dadant stocked it for a year or so. The unregressed bees hated it. The regressed bees were reluctant as all bees are with plastic.
 
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