Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Simple cure for the honeybee

Reese Halter, author of The Incomparable Honeybee and the Economics of Pollination said in an interview on CBC Radio's The Current that agricultural herbicides and pesticides have emerged as the likely and prime culprit for the disorder.

These would appear to adversely effect the bees' neurological systems, inducing the onset of Parkinson's Disease. This in turn causes the bees to become disoriented in the course of pollination, and they then lose their way and die without returning to their hives.

In fact, the cure is simple: dramatic curtailment of herbicide and pesticide use in modern agriculture, which is detrimental not only to bees, but to all manner of plant and animal life, including humans.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Simple+cure+honeybee/2737984/story.html#ixzz0kHFBmFLz

* * *

Gosh, that is so SIMPLE! Why didn't I think of that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,664 Posts
What's interesting to note is that this is actually an Opinion piece with not a shred of evidence to back up said opinion....not one single reference.

Am I trying to dispute that excessive exposure to specific chems is unhealthy? Nope...but broad, non specific statements like the ones used in the opinion piece help no one.

And who exactly is the author? A Google search on "Roderick Taylor ottowa" turns up some interesting results.

Not sure why you would reference this article.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Why does this article interest me? Because I just love it when people who know next to nothing about beekeeping have figured out why the bees are disappearing and they also even have the SIMPLE CURE!

Boy, it sure makes all those people look really stupid who have spent their lives and careers studying bees and trying to make a living at it and they couldn't even figure this out like Dr. Reese did.

And what could be more simple than bringing big agriculture to a screeching halt and ending the use of chemicals on our farms? Haven't people been trying to do this for a while? So just how simple is it?

The organic movement began in the 1930s and 1940s as a reaction to agriculture's growing reliance on synthetic fertilizers.
For some reason it just hasn't caught on. Maybe (just maybe) you can't really grow food on a scale sufficient to feed billions of people living in cities without modern agriculture.

Maybe if they stopped spraying they would be overrun by insects and not have any food for us. I have a 4 acre woodlot, and I doubt that I could survive on what I could grow on a rocky muddy patch of woods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
hHAHA, thats why I go with raise garden beds. When the soil is horrible, just build up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,664 Posts
Peter, you do realize that you referenced some opinion piece by some rube off the street and not someone you claim to be a researcher right?

And by the way...lets look at the DR Reese's background.

http://www.drreese.com/info/biography

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dr-reese-halter/5/5b1/346

Wow. I guess I should be impressed looking at what Dr Reese has to say about his background and education....these are his own words....

Dr Reese Halter’s Education

*
University of Melbourne

PhD , Tree ecophysiology , 1992 — 1995

I was stationed in Creswick, VIC at the School of Forestry and lived in Kingston at Kirkside. My dear friend Alan Thompson allowed me to live in one of the three exquisite pine cabins. The 1870s bluestone Holy Trinity church that Alan and June brought back to life has two magnificent giant Sequoia trees guarding the entrance. It's a magic place!
Can't seem to find anything in there that would lead me to believe that he knew anything about Biology, Chemistry or Bees for that matter.

Current

* Writer and Host at Dr Reese
* Science writer at Dr Reese

Past

* Founder and President at Global Forest Science

Education

* University of Melbourne

Recommended
Dr Reese has 7 recommendations 7 people have recommended Dr Reese
Connections
28 connections
Industry
Research
Websites

* My Website
* My Company
* My Blog

Dr Reese Halter’s Summary

I am a PhD scientist. I have worked in forests around the globe for the past two and a half decades. I am a Science Communicator: The Voice for Ecology in print on television, radio, podcast waves and via blogs.

At Global Forest Science there are teams of multi-disciplenary scientists effectively working to short circuit ecological disasters, as a board member I help oversee some of the many projects.

To effectively explain Nature's Blue Print and help society at large to lessen the global footprint on our planet.
Dr Reese Halter’s Specialties:

A communicator working in all mediums and seamlessly crossing age barriers.

Team leader that is effective at bringing the correct experts together to solve ecological problems.
Dr Reese Halter’s Experience

*
Writer and Host
Dr Reese

(Media Production industry)

2003 — Present (7 years )

I am a communicator in the field of biomimicry, natural science, natural histories, green technologies, conservation biology and science. I write and work on TV as well being a public speaker.
I have blog at http://drreese.wordpress.com
*
Science writer
Dr Reese

(Broadcast Media industry)

January 2003 — Present (7 years 4 months)

Crank-out an article each week
*
Founder and President
Global Forest Science

(Research industry)

1988 — 2009 (21 years )

I am a conservation biologist and I communicate in print on TV and via the podacst airwaves. I also have a blog http://drreese.wordpress.com
In 1988, I founded the international conservation institute Global Forest Science. GFS has been involved in short circuiting ecological disaster, protecting fragile ecosystems and providing children's ecological education. We've had some terrific wins over the past two decades.
He has a degree in Tree Ecophysiology and is a "Science Communicator"....:eek:

ROTFLMAO :lpf:

Spin Dr sounds more appropriate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,021 Posts
Peter, you just need to build a 4 acre raised bed, you might want to get started now before you really need it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Peter, you do realize that you referenced some opinion piece by some rube off the street and not someone you claim to be a researcher right?
Of course! But these people are the people that get in the news these days. I found out about this from an international newsletter that tracks news stories about honey bees all over the world.

The problem in my mind is that people will listen to these guys (and women) and become convinced that what they are saying is true, and become convinced that scientists are in cahoots with the chemical companies, ad nauseum.

When the PLOS study came out recently, I too was struck by the widespread presence of Chloropyrifos, an organophosphate insecticide, in bee hives. So I spent several weeks looking into what this means.

It means, of course, that organophosphates have not gone away. However, they are also being found in placental blood of apparently healthy babies, and in the atmosphere near the arctic circle.

So, the presence of chemicals in hives is simply not exceptional. It's depressing, but not unexpected. Also, not really new. I knew that these chemicals have been turning up in wax and honey for decades, but I never really wanted to think about it.

However, we know that insect pests become resistant to insecticides pretty quickly. It is possible that bees are actually pretty resistant to insecticides by now. Anyway, I don't think insecticides are the cause of Colony Collapse generally.

I really think we are looking at an immune disorder on the scale of AIDS, or some sort neuro-degenerative like mad cow disease. Just my take on it. Time will tell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,664 Posts
Peter, if I may make a suggestion, back your claims up with verifiable proof for folks to look at.

A lengthy post detailing your opinion on chemistry and biology isn't going to go far, particularly when the people doing the "research" have little more than a degree as a "Science Communicator"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
However, we know that insect pests become resistant to insecticides pretty quickly. It is possible that bees are actually pretty resistant to insecticides by now. Anyway, I don't think insecticides are the cause of Colony Collapse generally.

I really think we are looking at an immune disorder on the scale of AIDS, or some sort neuro-degenerative like mad cow disease. Just my take on it. Time will tell.
Interesting, I had not thought of those theories, perhaps one day we will truly know. Too bad its really hard to tell with the main bulk of bees being "infected" simply vanishing.


As to everyone else, okay, I agree that Peter was a bit annoying on other posts demanding "proof", but c'mon give it a rest please. It's obvious he was trying to poke fun at the author or the column and he has never slammed anyone (that I have seen) for plainly giving their opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,664 Posts
Interesting, I had not thought of those theories, perhaps one day we will truly know. Too bad its really hard to tell with the main bulk of bees being "infected" simply vanishing.
No offense, but I believe you're failing to distinguish between Theory and Opinion. Scientifically speaking the distinction IS rather profound.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
No, that's fair to ask proof of why we don't know. Eric Mussen is one of the most respected bee researchers in the known Universe, and he doesn't know. But Dr. Reese does. Eric recently wrote:
The most recent Farm Bill included language authorizing FSA offices to work with beekeepers to help determine limited compensation for honey bee colony losses to colony collapse disorder – CCD.. One aspect of completing the application packet is obtaining a letter, from one of a very few listed types of experts, that the losses appeared to be due to CCD. I say appeared because we do not know the exact cause of the CCD losses, so we cannot demonstrate it.

I am one of the types of individuals who are qualified to write such letters. Upon receipt of beekeeper requests, I began writing letters of support. Using common sense, I developed a set of questions that were meant to differentiate between routine losses and those apparently caused by CCD. Word spread that I was writing letters, while others with similar expertise were reluctant to do so. I eventually wrote more than 50 letters for beekeepers in California and across the country.

Eric Mussen Entomology Extension University of California Davis, CA 95616
What this means to me is that we are looking at a serious problem that cannot be easily connected to pesticides, migratory beekeeping, miticides, pollination, modern agriculture, nor any one thing . I have heard privately that there are serious indications of a new pathogen, one which can be isolated and used to create CCD like symptoms in healthy colonies. Imidacloprid was fed to bees and they did not collapse. That doesn't mean neonics are not harmful to bees, of course they are. All insecticides are hazardous to bees=bees are insects.

Anyway, anything I say is open to the same criticism as anyone else. My role in life is not to be an expert, but to be the guy that asks the hard questions that make people think. Of course, some folks want to be spoon fed answers and avoid avoid thinking too much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
No offense, but I believe you're failing to distinguish between Theory and Opinion. Scientifically speaking the distinction IS rather profound.
Actually, if you look at the Scientific Method, a theory starts with an opinion. For instance in Peter's case, it might be his opinion that CCD might actually be cased by a neurological disease. That in turn becomes a theory or hypothesis that can be tested. Technically speaking, contrary to some popular belief, a theory is just a hypothesis in some state of being tested.

Typically an opinion is formed through observation and the retention of other knowledge based on the subject, so is a hypothesis which in turn is a theory until proven otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
I have heard privately that there are serious indications of a new pathogen, one which can be isolated and used to create CCD like symptoms in healthy colonies.
Would be interested in seeing some research done on this pathogen. Would be interesting to read.

I still think it'll be a long while before we will really know for sure, that is IF we ever really know for sure. In the mean time, I like to read everything I can about it. Its interesting to see how others come to their conclusions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Would be interested in seeing some research done on this pathogen. Would be interesting to read.
Yeah, me too. I heard about it in Orlando this winter but was told to wait until results are published. However, in talking to beekeepers who have experienced real CCD, it sure sounds like a flu-like virus in the way that it spreads through an outfit. Real long time beekeeping experts are left scratching their heads and wondering WTF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
Thats where I question a lot of things when it comes to CCD. The whole "real CCD" part. I have seen a lot of beeks claim they were hit but CCD, but when you get down to it, these losses could have been caused by any number of other issues.

Do we really have a set framework for what truly is considered "CCD"? I've just never really seen a set list, and even when some have tried to put one out, they seem to be easily caused by other issues.

Maybe I just don't have a large enough number of hives to fully know what its like to take major hits like some commercial operations have. I guess when you have hundreds of hives simply gone, you just know its not some of the typical reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,964 Posts
Pete,

Are you talking about the "Picorna-like virus" that's been found in CCD hives? I don't think it's thought of as a cause....just a possible marker. Do you have more?



dickm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Pete, Are you talking about the "Picorna-like virus" that's been found in CCD hives? I don't think it's thought of as a cause....just a possible marker. Do you have more?{/QUOTE]

Not really, you know what I know. I have heard that people have "successfully" produced CCD like symptoms with inoculation, which is tantalizingly close to saying they have found a causative agent. Believe me, if I knew more I would say so.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,229 Posts
I've recalled reading a study that established a link between CCD, fragmented honey bee ribosomes, picorna virus, and varroa.

Makes you wonder.

Johnson R.M., J. Evans, G. E. Robinson and M. R. Berenbaum, 2009, Changes in transcript expression relating to colony collapse disorder in Apis mellifera. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 106: 14790-14795.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2736458/

This last link helps explain where this line of research is leading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
For some reason it just hasn't caught on. Maybe (just maybe) you can't really grow food on a scale sufficient to feed billions of people living in cities without modern agriculture.
I do agree on your post and main points. But it is not impossible to feed billions of people with a lot less pesticide than what is used today. It's mainly about when, where, what, how and the amounts you spray.

BTW: With or without large scale agriculture, and pollinators. It would still be possible to grow enough food. But with less variation and at a much greater cost.:)
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top