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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know Randy Oliver says it's safe to apply shop towels with supers on but I still hesitate given that the application is still so experimental. How do folks feel about it? Does anyone leave supers on when they apply oxalic acid shop towles?
 

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I think he is using 18 grams but he does have updates on his site that give the amounts. His test so far are that there is no change in the honey that brings oa content above what is natural to honey. However he does have a permit and a permit is needed to experiment with shop towels and so they are off label treatment at this time with out a permit.
So it is probably safe but also not lawful at this time. I have never seen a study yet that puts honey treated with oa in any fashion out side of what is natural for honey.

Your best bet it to read randy's site and get it from the horses mouth rather then ask all of us.

This is like all studies, if we don't run the study our-self, we have to rely on those that do.
Cheers
gww
 

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Does the EPA function well enough to issue permits to smaller scale beekeepers?
 

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I believe that randy's first article covers the process of how he requested a permit and give some guidance to others.
Cheers
gww
 

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If you want to gather more info on OA/Glycerine there is a popular New Zealand bee forum that has around 200 pages of posts on oa/gly soaked paper and cardboard. The Argentinians have it approved in their country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The recipe I use from his site calls for 25g per towel, squeezed out. I think I will just take the supers off and put on fresh ones that I will feed back to them. Fall honey is so watery anyway in my experience.
Thanks,
Margot
 

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margot
Did you also look at all of his updates? Randy has tried several formulas.
Good luck
gww

Ps I thought he had gotten away from having to squeeze dry.
 

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Randy Oliver does not say it is safe to treat with shop towels while supers are on. He does not even advocate using shop towels. He is reporting his findings of approved experiments and hoping that people will be responsible with the info he discloses. While he cannot control what people do with the info, I am sure he would not be happy with people misrepresenting his reports. This is the reason why these small scale approvals are hard to get. J
 

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fivej
Randy Oliver does not say it is safe to treat with shop towels while supers are on.
Randy does indicate that it is safe to treat with supers on and this is what his experiment data tells him. Thus why he is trying to get it approved through proper channels. He does however point out that at this time that approval has not materialized yet. Thus it is an unauthorized action unless you get an experimental permit.

He does not say you should do it with out the permit.
Cheers
gww
 

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Instead of letting the beekeepers make their rules, it seems best to let a central authority with little knowledge of the subject make them instead.
 

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Instead of letting the beekeepers make their rules, it seems best to let a central authority with little knowledge of the subject make them instead.
It is also a bad idea to allow the fox to guard the hen house.

Alex
 

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fivej

Randy does indicate that it is safe to treat with supers on and this is what his experiment data tells him. Thus why he is trying to get it approved through proper channels. He does however point out that at this time that approval has not materialized yet. Thus it is an unauthorized action unless you get an experimental permit.

He does not say you should do it with out the permit.
Cheers
gww
I believe that is what I said and am pretty sure people jumping to "Randy Oliver says its safe." Would make him slap his forehead. He is very careful what he says for good reason. He knows some people will be experimenting no matter what and is walking a fine line in disclosing his formulas,results and opinions. J
 

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fivej
I believe that is what I said and am pretty sure people jumping to "Randy Oliver says its safe." Would make him slap his forehead. He is very careful what he says for good reason. He knows some people will be experimenting no matter what and is walking a fine line in disclosing his formulas,results and opinions. J
However, his stated objective is to get it approved not to study on whether it should be approved. He already knows it is safe but has to do the work to prove that to the powers that be. But he also understands that he can not be the one that can be pointed to that has promoted people to break the law. So my belief is that he is saying it is safe but also saying there is a process and he is following that process. So I believe he is showing the people though his work that it is safe and that same work will show the government. Then every body knows the same facts.
Cheers
gww
 

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" Does anyone leave supers on when they apply oxalic acid shop towles?"

No to "with" or "without" supers on - make too much of a mess and apparently not very effective (by test not observations) - plus a violation federal law. I found making up the towels a bit dangerous ( tried it in violation on an experimental basis for one hive. I get the need for long term treatment applications, like Apivar, but no one is offering up a real, profitable solution to compete with dribble or vaporization. We need a University to suppor by bee clubs ponying up the cash to change the EPA approval so OA can be used with supers on and waive the relicensing fee - EPA has the tools to watch results. After all the have they expertise, personnel and historical data as well as European data to support the change but are hamstrung by corporate driven congressional legislation. Who do they, EPA and Congress, work for? :rolleyes:
 

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gww;

Maybe is a bit like making moonshine. People who knew exactly what to do and not do, could pull it off. Enough of the craft was handed down and all the technicalities not known in detail. Not instructions you can easily make fool proof, or legal so the ones doing it dont publicly recommend it.

In todays lawsuit society, it is risky for anyone with any worthwhile assets to engage. But like the saying goes, you cant get pants off a bare arth!

Randy can get more done by not pulling the beard of the establishment.
 

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frank
Maybe is a bit like making moonshine. People who knew exactly what to do and not do, could pull it off. Enough of the craft was handed down and all the technicalities not known in detail. Not instructions you can easily make fool proof, or legal so the ones doing it dont publicly recommend it.
You so right. On the moonshine, they have plenty of rules in place to follow up on even if you are only making it for your lawn mower. This is another thing a permit has to be got for if you want to partake and not worry about keeping the 40 acres and a mule in your own name.:)

Cheers
gww
 
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