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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last summer I treated w apivar 7/18. During that time I placed new supers on and after treatment froze those honey frames for winter feed. They didn't consume that honey (stuck to the deeps) and I kept them on the hive hoping that they'd eat it during early spring. Nope. They've just been packing on new honey building out those frames (as well as new super). In meantime I've treated w OAV as well.

I'm confused about the prevailing dogma re. consumption safety.. I read apivar's brochure which states the active chemical isn't detected in honey/wax after treatment w 10x rec'd dose. But then I've read a bunch more stuff stating that it will make flames shoot from your eyes and you'll die a million deaths, slowly.

And, though I've been pretty good about removing the supers w OAV, in spring I didn't bother with those overwintered supers thinking that honey would be consumed before the flow.

What to believe? Would hate to waste full capped frames of what looks like great honey.. And next year I don't plan to overwinter with supers again so I don't want to just freeze to save for winter feed. Any input?

Thanks

Brad
 

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Last summer I treated w apivar 7/18. During that time I placed new supers on and after treatment froze those honey frames for winter feed. They didn't consume that honey (stuck to the deeps) and I kept them on the hive hoping that they'd eat it during early spring. Nope. They've just been packing on new honey building out those frames (as well as new super). In meantime I've treated w OAV as well.

I'm confused about the prevailing dogma re. consumption safety.. I read apivar's brochure which states the active chemical isn't detected in honey/wax after treatment w 10x rec'd dose. But then I've read a bunch more stuff stating that it will make flames shoot from your eyes and you'll die a million deaths, slowly.

And, though I've been pretty good about removing the supers w OAV, in spring I didn't bother with those overwintered supers thinking that honey would be consumed before the flow.

What to believe? Would hate to waste full capped frames of what looks like great honey.. And next year I don't plan to overwinter with supers again so I don't want to just freeze to save for winter feed. Any input?

Thanks

Brad
How much honey are you talking about?
in deeps or mediums?
in general the solution to pollution is dilution.
if for example you have 10 frames of this honey that may have Apivar in it. and extract it with 100 frames of normal honey it then is 1/10 as bad as you started. I am not suggesting what you should do I am just trying to point out some "math"
Another idea is to "try" to trap some late swarms or make some late july, early aug splits, something that can get to 10 frames by fall, simply, set 2 supers of honey on them and somewhat bank some extra, coloneys. If you have a couple bee buddies see if they need winter stores.
after you pull honey ,any light hives can have this honey added, especially ones that are bigger than normal. Late season set the honey out in the Apairy to be robbed out spread around the hives and packed in as winter stores, they they will consume this during the winter. any robbing bees will likely be dead by spring. I by the way do not treat for this and a couple other reasons. "even if" they put this honey in the winter hive, if you reverse boxes in the spring they may move it into a super. I would read the label a few times think back to the timing and do what is best for all concerned. Also could call the company and ask if mead making would destroy the medication of not, lots of folks out there making meed that would welcome some cheap honey , extract it for them if it would be safe. If you have some bear hunting friends, .......extract and pour over the dead fish or corn. if they say it is not detectable in the wax or honey it may break down over time so reach out to someone who has some knowledge in this area and confirm , maybe a veterinarian or something. good luck
GG
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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Don't you get a summer dearth starting mid July where you are? I lost a deep full of capped honey my first year because I did not know about the dearth and how fast the bees could eat all that honey. I was waiting to borrow the club extracter and had left the frames on the hive. Once your flow stops, they should be able to empty those frames in no time. As far as the tainted honey, would you chew on your pet's flea collar? Same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re. how much honey: I extracted 4 frames today. Not a lot. But there's loads more, and at this point who knows what's new and what's the old stuff. I was planning to only consume what I know is new spring honey in the supers I placed this spring, but man I'll have a lot of that older stuff once I extract the deeps to make room for the queen. I'll do some more research on it. Maybe I'll just keep it to feed back to them late fall. Thanks for the input!
 

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Re. how much honey: I extracted 4 frames today. Not a lot. But there's loads more, and at this point who knows what's new and what's the old stuff. I was planning to only consume what I know is new spring honey in the supers I placed this spring, but man I'll have a lot of that older stuff once I extract the deeps to make room for the queen. I'll do some more research on it. Maybe I'll just keep it to feed back to them late fall. Thanks for the input!
get a permanent marker, put a TH on the top of the frame Treatment Honey, as time goes on they will be hard to keep track of. I had 8 dead outs this year early deaths, i have near 80 deep frames of honey. So i have 10 swarm traps out, i normally pull them in around 4th of July as the late swarm need lots of feed to make the winter. this year i intend to trap till my honey is gone, giving a full deep to the late swarms.
not sure but there may be a place to test it. could send some in to test as well.
GG
 

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Don't you get a summer dearth starting mid July where you are? I lost a deep full of capped honey my first year because I did not know about the dearth and how fast the bees could eat all that honey. I was waiting to borrow the club extracter and had left the frames on the hive. Once your flow stops, they should be able to empty those frames in no time. As far as the tainted honey, would you chew on your pet's flea collar? Same thing.
JWPalmer, same thing would be to chew on the dogs leg, if you wanted to compare. the strips are not in the jar, and they were not in the honey, they were in the hive. also stated is "I read apivar's brochure which states the active chemical isn't detected in honey/wax after treatment w 10x rec'd dose. " so it seems the active chemical breaks down in some time frame and is not likely to be "tracked" into the honey. if the 10X dose is not detectable then likely the normal 1x dose is 1/10 as detectable. Great business idea would be someone gets a gas chromatograph and offers testing of wax and honey and pollen. looks to be a need.
GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Actually- to clarify: at 10X dose Amitraz was detectable- but way under European Medicine Agency limits. It was much lower at 2X dose, and undetectable at recommended dosing. See attached screenshot from the brochure. I'd be curious to know who funded the study and whether there is potential bias- though I think the Beltsville lab is very respected. That said, my personal take-away is that for small batches of honey with potential exposure to Amitraz, the chances of clinically significant negative effects are probably negligible. I think the calculus changes drastically if you're talking about commercial application with massive quantities. You're right GG-- would be a cool thing to be able to get samples from batches tested.
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 11.13.28 AM.jpg
 

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Actually- to clarify: at 10X dose Amitraz was detectable- but way under European Medicine Agency limits. It was much lower at 2X dose, and undetectable at recommended dosing. See attached screenshot from the brochure. I'd be curious to know who funded the study and whether there is potential bias- though I think the Beltsville lab is very respected. That said, my personal take-away is that for small batches of honey with potential exposure to Amitraz, the chances of clinically significant negative effects are probably negligible. I think the calculus changes drastically if you're talking about commercial application with massive quantities. You're right GG-- would be a cool thing to be able to get samples from batches tested.
View attachment 48941
I am thinking that in a Hive the meds are next to food, that testing is done before we can even buy the stuff. yes the limit was 200ug/kg the 10x from the graph looks to be around 25ug/kg. so if we somewhat extrapolate, 1x would around 2.5 ug/kg, and in my example if you have 10 frames not treated to the treated frame the "KG" would go up 10x while the UG remains constant.. so .25ug/kg where we blend in the 10% treated.
Again the solution to pollution is dilution. :) And yes a testing facility would be a very nice thing to have. I would think the pesticides and such would be a way bigger concern. I doubt Bayer has to test at 2 quarts of pesticide per acre, how much ends up in the pollen or nectar.
GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
After watching a documentary on honey production (and the adulterated corn syrup stuff from China) I can only assume that there is more crud in that stuff than what we're talking about in small scale backyard production with infrequent relatively low dose mitocide exposure. And lots of folks have/are consuming that. That said, I think I'll stick with OAV/formic acid for now..
 
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