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That's funny...............quoting the Bible in one post and drinking beer in the next!
To be clear, the expression "hold my beer..." isn't actually about drinking beer.

For the record, I'm an obnoxious teetotaler, because too many of my friends and family have been injured or killed because they didn't manage their relationship with ethyl alcohol properly.

While I am aware that it can be enjoyable, I just can't look at the stuff as benign.

Probably nothing causes more human misery that the effects of ethyl alcohol. I would challenge anyone to refute that.
 

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I will be the 1st to say my curve looks more like this
The Dunning-Kruger Effect – Agile-Mercurial | Dunning–kruger effect, How to  gain confidence, Dunning
What I find daunting is that after thar first peak, there is a valley. And from that valley, it is much easier to attemt to ascend again toward the first peak than to scale the second
 

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I will be the 1st to say my curve looks more like this
The Dunning-Kruger Effect – Agile-Mercurial | Dunning–kruger effect, How to  gain confidence, Dunning
Mind if I use this? I'd like to post it to my nursing facebook page.

I have been a nurse about 6 years. I feel pretty confident. I am strong on the basics and getting a lot better at the hard stuff. Last night I took a very critically ill patient (106 fever) and spent the whole night caring for him/her. In the morning a 30-year nurse schooled me very efficiently with a few words of advice. I was like..why didn't I think of that...?

What I did wasn't wrong, but could have been accomplished far more efficiently if I had had a few minutes of down time to think about the problem. She didn't need that time, she already knew the answer instantly. What's funny is I was working with a resident doctor, that is, a doctor with many more years of medical education than I will ever have, and far less practical experience, being a new grad doc. Between us, neither of us came up with the obvious, efficient solutions. It is generally considered that it takes 3 years for a nurse to become basically competent, 5 years for competence, and ten years of experience for true excellence. I love working with the grumpy old nurses. I will take their biting sarcasm and eat it for dessert.

At 5 years of beekeeping, that's where I am here too. Getting the basics down, but often not seeing the easy, efficient way to do things. There are REASONS why the grumpy old beekeepers look at newbie TF guys and have a hard time dialing back the sarcasm. They have seen generations of us come and go, with the same stupid mistakes made time after time. All praise for the hardened few who still take the time to school us.
 

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It is generally considered that it takes 3 years for a nurse to become basically competent, 5 years for competence, and ten years of experience for true excellence.
Last time I was a patient in the ER I got very annoyed with a very confident nurse lady (who btw was "training" someone else alongside).
Well, the "experienced" one tortured me for the longest frigging time - poking that sharp, fat needle trying to find a vein in my arm so to install the IV. Finally, they called in some bold dude who installed the IV in 30 seconds. Man, I loved that bold dude (even though I am indifferent to males). (y)

A very similar thing happened to my boy with an acute case of appendicitis - the same "IV needle torture", :mad: but on a 7-year old child.
I swear, 3-4 nurses tried unsuccessfully to stick the needle in (with "years and years" of experience).
I hated looking at this scene of the "IV needle torture".
Again, some "John Smith" guy was finally called in and he just did it - in and done.
Turned out, "John Smith" was pretty much a dedicated IV guy for the entire hospital and all he ever did - the IVs on children - just running floor to a floor doing the IVs (because everyone else sucked at it badly and just avoided the whole thing - wow, that's some experience.... ).

I say, pretty much at about ~5 years of "experience" mark (profession dependent, of course) you are what you are and not much else will change after that.
Some people cry forever they "did not get enough training"... A common shtick. :)

PS: I am just an average IT guy, not terrible, not genius, know how to use Google;
I have too much experience, but I am also bored; :)
the performance also greatly depends on how interested you are and if you are truly fit or not for the profession/craft/skill/whatever in question.

Experience <> excellence.
 

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I read the study, very interesting and probably accurate.

Real world example of Dunning Kruger effect happened on this site some years ago, the person concerned no longer posts here or keeps bees so I think I can talk about it. The thread was kind of funny to follow.

A TF guy with a claimed 20 hives was on the commercial section here lecturing the commercial guys where they were going wrong, and what they should be doing different. (This type stuff happened a lot back then). In a particular argument with a 600 hive one man commercial guy. The 20 hive guy said he could manage the other guys business and do a better job. "just do what I do, times 30" he said. So the other guy a bit peed off responded OK how about you take over and be my manager, the comment clearly intended as a joke. But the other guy thought it was serious, and straight off started talking what he would do, how much money he wanted, etc.. The commercial guy was forced to say straight up, hey, I was joking, at which the other guy got super offended, the whole thing went pretty pear shaped and was deleted by a moderator.

What I took from it was the massive over estimation by the TF 20 hive guy of his abilities. His hive numbers maxed out at 20 but were often much lower and he suplimented his losses by collecting swarms. This would not have been sustainable trrying to do it "times 30", there would not have been 30 times as many swarms to collect. His honey production was a few jars a year and that, times 30, would have been nowhere near enough to generate the needed income to sustain the commercial operation. Yet despite that he was talking about his expected remuneration, and I don't know where he thought the money for that would come from.

As a very amateur, and I would class as a failing beekeeper, he had a massive over estimation of his own skills and abilities, he knew so little about bees he thought it was all he had to know.

I never discussed this with anyone before. But now the Dunning Kruger study has been published, it has put this behavior into words and defined it. The above is a perfect example.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
For the record, I'm an obnoxious teetotaler, because too many of my friends and family have been injured or killed because they didn't manage their relationship with ethyl alcohol properly.
Probably nothing causes more human misery that the effects of ethyl alcohol. I would challenge anyone to refute that.
Because random tangents on posts seem to be a "thing".
Substantial literature on Ethanol and Honeybees. The slide is snipped from one of my lectures.
Ethanol and Honeybee research quantifies a behavior called "upside down". This is when the bee lies on its back waving its legs in the air like some gutter drunk. About half the bees that go "upside down" succumb. Ethanol is adversive to bees, but they can be tricked into consuming it by spiking the punch with sugar syrup.
Arthropod Organism Insect Font Terrestrial plant
 

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Because random tangents on posts seem to be a "thing".
Substantial literature on Ethanol and Honeybees. The slide is snipped from one of my lectures.
Ethanol and Honeybee research quantifies a behavior called "upside down". This is when the bee lies on its back waving its legs in the air like some gutter drunk. About half the bees that go "upside down" succumb. Ethanol is adversive to bees, but they can be tricked into consuming it by spiking the punch with sugar syrup. View attachment 67072
Nice!

It is winter, and random comments and armchair science is about all we have...
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
It is winter, and random comments and armchair science is about all we have...
Not to make you jealous, but spring brood up has begun in my colonies feeding on flowering -Blue- -Gum-
Eucalyptus on the Central California Coast. Arroyo Willow will begin in about a week. Some early Buckbrush (Ceanothus cuneatus) is out now.

Euc is a tricky one, the nectar is profuse (in native Tasmania it fed parrots), but very dilute (about 13%). Colonies can plug out on it, as the smaller spring clusters cannot build comb in the cool weather. Despite the strong menthol odor of the trees, the honey is not affected, its a mellow amber in color when finished. Euc nectar is high in indigestible higher carbohydrates, so the honey is not sharp in taste like some "pure" sugar nectars.

Odd, --Blue-- --Gum--- is replaced with asterisks unless you munge the spelling.
 

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I say, pretty much at about ~5 years of "experience" mark (profession dependent, of course) you are what you are and not much else will change after that.
This reminds me of an interview I heard on NPR with Arthur Brooks- who at about the 4:45 minute mark remarks:

"I take my own career completely down to the studs every 10 years and start over."

 

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And another interesting one:

Why some people experience a 'hot streak' in their careers

The nexus between exploration and exploitation.
Pretty much.
Even the geniuses are NOT on the infinite growth slope - the higher you climb, the longer will be your potential fall.
Nothing to prevent one from becoming a useless drug addict, no matter how genius they used to be.

That "Plateau of Sustainability" is far from stable either way (IF it even ever reached high enough altitude to brag about).

 

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This reminds me of an interview I heard on NPR with Arthur Brooks- who at about the 4:45 minute mark remarks:

"I take my own career completely down to the studs every 10 years and start over."

I always viewed my employment as a temporary job. I didn't think it wise to identify myself by the work I did.

I thought I was doing pretty good at that until my employer decided to replace me with guys in India and guys in China. Much to my surprise, this bothered and discouraged me. Not so much the guys in China, as they were down to earth types, and quite likeable personally. The ones in India were like 2nd year beekeepers, and to be honest I resented them more that I liked. As I get older, I appreciate Ecclesiastes more.

Then I looked on all the works that my hands had done
And on the labor in which I had toiled;
And indeed all was vanity and grasping for the wind.
 

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As I get older, I appreciate Ecclesiastes more.
Indeed- and as he concludes:

Ecclesiastes 12:9-13 - In addition to being a wise man, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge; and he pondered, searched out and arranged many proverbs. The Preacher sought to find delightful words and to write words of truth correctly. The words of wise men are like goads, and masters of these collections are like well-driven nails; they are given by one Shepherd.

But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body. The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.
 

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If you are bored, go into nursing!
AR1:

As I've said before, I really admire you folks working in the medical field right now. All my friends and acquaintances working in this space talk about how much pressure they are under right now, and yet our personal experience with two health scares early in the fall during the last surge was nothing but first-class and professional. Keep up the good work.
 

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If you are bored, go into nursing!
Nursing suspiciously looks like work.

I'd rather have at least some fun, do some BS'ing about, AND still get sufficiently paid for this.
OH! Still prefer to live on regular hours too - I've done my time with 2nd/3rd shifts - enough of that non-sense.
 

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"Live the life you Love, Love the life you Live" - Muddy Waters


Both my Maternal and Paternal Grandmothers were nurses. Much like Teaching (Ma was one), it requires a certain type of honest compassion and a genuine commitment to helping those in need....to be successful.

They, and their past, current and future sisters and brothers will always be Superheroes imo. We've personally lost some during covid.

Apparently, becoming a Lawyer is about 10 times more popular than nursing, although it could be even wider considering the harassment teachers and nurses are suffering these days?

Sorry for the off-topic....
 
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