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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Three hives at the same location have the indications of extreme EFB. A fourth has no brood at all. A week ago the broodless hive had a smallish queen - possibly unmated, supersedure, either in the fall or recently. Four hives, total at that location.

Last week we noticed that larval brood in the 3 with brood that the brood was slightly off-color, more of a light gray than the "pearly white" of healthy larvae. Decided to check again in a week. Yesterday, was sickening. All the larval brood ranged from white in the youngest, through brown in mid-age, to crumpled up in a darker heap for the oldest. The heap did not rope. Although we did not look at all the brood frames, we did go halfway through the broodnests with all larval brood looking the same. There were a few scattered worker cappings on a frame of diseased larva. We opened a few to find white pupa, some alive. But this disease didn't miss many - less than 1 %. Mean stuff.

Now, we have to move out, smartly, to prevent spreading. We are currently expecting to separate the adults from brood by shaking out the adults onto foundation - shook swarm style, and removing the queens. The frames with stores or brood can be placed in available freezers for the time being. To be delt with later.

I have no experience with this monster. What I'm hoping to get from this post is some help from some who have been through it and recovered. Specifally, the title of the thread is important. Any other tips would be gravy. Quite a few boxes involved.

Am not inclined to try antibiotics. To me, it seems that the infection is too severe to take that route, but might try it if convinced that would knock it out.

Thanks,
Walt
 

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I have been through EFB it's not that big a deal. AFB is the bad one .EFB has a ring of bad brood around the outside of the brood pattern and no strings. I gave them some terramcin patties. I like the patty method much better than the three sprinkles of powder across the frame ends. I had it years ago still have those two hives, no problems since. You can also remove the queen and use the treatment free method as you are thinking, never tried it. Antibiotics worked for me.
 

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It sounds as if you might have a couple things going on queen wise. As I'm sure you know EFB is known to be a stress related disease. Most advocate re-queening the colony. Terramycin is quite effective. Last spring I made up some splits and two of them began to show symptoms of EFB. 2- 3 treatments of Terramycin cleared it up dramatically. While I am not a strong advocate of drugging my bees I do like keeping my bees alive. As far as re-using equipment goes I'm sure you will get different opinions. I disposed of the infected brood combs and replaced with clean drawn comb. Get them on some 2:1 syrup if your introducing foundation as a replacement. I would not hesitate to reuse the boxes, bottom boards etc. We used to use Terra a lot when we ran 3000 colonies.
 

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I would go so far as to say that its no big deal but it isn't the monster either.
 

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Walt I agree with the previous two posts. We had it in a couple of hives last spring. We treated with Terramyacin for three weeks. We are still using the hives and frames, and the colonies in them are in super shape with no reoccurrence of the disease.
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks, troops,
Had a few packets of Terra in the chem cabinet, but had never used any. Dated 12 03. May give them a dose of that until we can get some fresh.
Walt
 

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I have had it show up several times the last few years. Neither Mann Lake patties or Duramycin did much. Three colonies continue to languish. I melt down the combs when they die off. I am considering shaking or exterminating those.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
O D,
You've turned me around again. Do you suppose that your EFB has developed some tolerance to terra? Spent the morning circulating through farm supply stores in the area. Found both Dura.. and Terra Vet, but no Pfizer. All have 10 grams of active ingredient.
Back to square 1.

Walt
 

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Randy Oliver OK'ed the use of Duramycin, it was all I could get in a small quantity from the Feed Store. I mixed one part to five parts sugar and dusted three time a week apart. I have not been able to cure EFB with antibiotics.
 

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Was it Randy Oliver that spoke of "Snotty Brood" that was off color and dying?I Be careful, we have seen such on occasion, but I do not think we ever figured out EXACTLY what it was. It may not be EFB If you have 4 hives, try 4 different things.


Crazy Roland
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Roland,
Good thought. Three hives with exactly the same indications. In the last couple weeks our bees have just jumped into full-up expansion mode - more than a single frame of all-larvae brood. The broodnests of all three look the same. Same start time and same deterioration rate. That's not what I would expect for an introduction to EFB. Much too well organized.
Will give the little queen unit another week to start laying before taking any action there.

Walt
 

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Dated 12 03. May give them a dose of that until we can get some fresh.
Walt
Most antibiotics have a shelf life. If you give them out dated medicine it could strengthen the disease. I thought terramycin could not be used in bee hives anymore?
 

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Terramycin
· Terramycin is a member of the antibiotic family of tetracycline. Its generic name is oxytetracycline hydrochloride. It can be purchased online and through beekeeping equipment catalogs. It is sold either in pure, unadulterated form or pre-mixed for treatment. Terramycin should only be used on uninfected hives when there is a known infection in the area, especially when bees are likely to steal honey and pollen from other hives. If a hive becomes infected by either version of foulbrood, Terramycin is no longer an appropriate treatment.


Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_6298886_foulbrood-treatment-terramycin.html#ixzz2xpEOPEhS

http://www.ehow.com/about_6298886_foulbrood-treatment-terramycin.html
 

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Was it Randy Oliver that spoke of "Snotty Brood" that was off color and dying?I Be careful, we have seen such on occasion, but I do not think we ever figured out EXACTLY what it was. It may not be EFB If you have 4 hives, try 4 different things.
Crazy Roland
This is interesting. I have seen the snotty brood last summer and the inspector swore up and down it was AFB. Sent off samples to Beltsville for confirmation and it came back as EFB. Possibly a newer strain of EFB we are not used to seeing yet. I asked the inspector if he wanted to take the colony with him for further investigation, but he was reluctant so I just burned it instead. Apparently his due diligence was done!
 

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Possibly a newer strain of EFB we are not used to seeing yet

That could be a possibility. If i remember correctly, it cleared up in the fall when we started feeding, and was usually found only in "Zero" hives(think of a major player who's name starts with a "Zero", and ends with where my Native American friend calls home).

We eliminated those genes and the problem did not return.

Waaaaiiiit!!!! I just remembered the cure. Give them enough frames of capped brood from a healthy hive to make up about half of he bees present. After things look better, kill and replace the queen.


Crazy Roland
 

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I thought terramycin could not be used in bee hives anymore?
http://www.masterbeekeeper.org/mgmt/antibiotics.htm from cornell

•Terramycin® is the trade name for the antibiotic oxy-tetracycline – HCl, the only antibiotic registered for the PREVENTION of American foulbrood (AFB). Terramycin® is also registered for control of European foulbrood (EFB). Terramycin® is often called TM for short.


•Terramycin® should be mixed as a dust with powdered sugar to deliver 200 mg active ingredient per 1 oz dose of TM/sugar mixture.



•Three, 1 oz doses are applied at 4 - 5 day intervals in the early spring and again in the fall after removing the crop.

•You must observe a 42-day withholding period after your last application of the TM/SUGAR mix before adding supers for marketable honey
 

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That is copywrited 2008 what document do you have for 2014?
 

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> I thought terramycin could not be used in bee hives anymore?

In most of the world antibiotics of all kinds are illegal in beehives. But we are the "Better living through chemistry" country...

>•You must observe a 42-day withholding period after your last application of the TM/SUGAR mix before adding supers for marketable honey


The half life of OTC (Terramycin) at 34 C is 12 days.
http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/89/08/99/PDF/hal-00890899.pdf

tylosin, the other approved antibiotic for use in bees, tylosin has a half life of 102 days at 34 C... (longer if cooler)
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/production/pubs/2013_recommendations_may14_final1.pdf

This recommends four weeks withdrawal period for Tylosin which is no where near its half life...
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/production/pubs/2013_recommendations_may14_final1.pdf

It's a good thing we in the US don't have antibiotics in our honey...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Treated with terra yesterday. Used the above-linked instructions. Added the dry mix on the top bars at the recommended rate of 1 gram per hive. (All four) In addition, lightly sprayed the affected brood areas with the sugar water mix.

Will do this 2 more times at 4 day intervals and see what happens.

Walt
 
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