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So I was listening to an audio book on beekeeping. It was an older book but not super old.

It said something like sasketraz or starliners should be requeened at 1 mark. (I forgot which it was, but it was one of those two.)

I wondered if this is still the case? Or has that idea changed?
 

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Get the book "Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey" by Brother Adam. Read it, study it. It is the bible to all my beekeeping. But in essence raise your queens in summer on the flow when things are abundant. When bees want to raise queens. Over winter them to be "tested". Any bee s that can't winter have no value. From these wintered queens, you re-queen your apairies from 50-75% of all colonies. The best hives are kept to select breeders and as a drone source. Rinse and repeat. Of course you re-queen as needed too. Your not requeening all those hives because the queens are junk. But because they are selected to be a little better than the year before and to maintain a youthful vigor across your apiaries.
 

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Get the book "Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey" by Brother Adam. Read it, study it. It is the bible to all my beekeeping. But in essence raise your queens in summer on the flow when things are abundant. When bees want to raise queens. Over winter them to be "tested". Any bee s that can't winter have no value. From these wintered queens, you re-queen your apairies from 50-75% of all colonies. The best hives are kept to select breeders and as a drone source. Rinse and repeat. Of course you re-queen as needed too. Your not requeening all those hives because the queens are junk. But because they are selected to be a little better than the year before and to maintain a youthful vigor across your apiaries.
It may be too early for me to post but
"From these wintered queens, you re-queen your apairies from 50-75% of all colonies. "
Why would you Re-Queen a hive that made it through the Winter?
Wouldn't you want to keep those queens?

Unless you are talking about ones that Didn't make it through the Winter, but then wouldn't there not be a hive if it didn't make it. Or do you mean weak hives from the Winter?

Sorry I know I got up late and took a sleeping pill last night so I am a bit foggy this morning....
 

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There is supposedly a rising inclination to swarm with increasing age of queens and also the odds of queen death overwintering. Nothing saying that the replaced queens cannot be put to use in a nuc, drawing comb or raising bees, or graft from her.

I felt enlightened by posts by msl showing the need for strategic culling as well as strategic selection just to maintain the quality of a stock let alone improve it.
 

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ankklackning: I think we need more context from your book. We need to know the author's goals in her recommendation to requeen each year.

If the goal is to keep a pure Saskatraz or Starline line of bees, then you must requeen every year and must purchase your queens from a Saskatraz/Starline breeder who has controlled mating. Otherwise, the genetics of the Saskatraz line, or Russian line or VSH line, etc. become rapidly diluted with open breeding that will naturally occur within your own apiary.

If, however, the goal is not to maintain the genetics of the specific line of queens, but instead to pursue the theory of local adaptation, then I question why one would ever start with a "foreign" line of queens in the first place.
 

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Look at the progression:

year 1: queens are reared and mated in summer and over wintered in nucleus colonies.
year 2:These queens head up production colonies
year 3: 50-75% of year 2's queens(which are now 3 years old) are replaced with the over wintered queens from year 1 (which are year 2). the cycle repeats over and over.

So we are requeening 3 year old queens. Chances are many of these queens will fizzle out over there 3 rd summer or won't make it over winter to there fourth year. We keep the best of the best into year 4. We know that we are selecting long lived queens from our very best stock. Look at Micheal Palmer and Kirk Webster and others what they are doing is a variation of Brother Adam's method. I don't care if you use top bar hives, warre, or the latest one, the methods can be adapted and used.
 

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if you run seeleys numbers 90% of feral queens don't make it threw a 2nd winter
 
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I would re queen when some event or discovery leads you to believe either the genetics are wrong for "you" or she is old and/or failing.
I do not across the board replace.
I do notice some of the hives requeen themselves, watch the pre events and hive characteristics just prior to this to better understand the Why from the bees point of view.
 

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I would re queen when some event or discovery leads you to believe either the genetics are wrong for "you" or she is old and/or failing.
I do not across the board replace.
I do notice some of the hives requeen themselves, watch the pre events and hive characteristics just prior to this to better understand the Why from the bees point of view.
Yes; I tore down cells a few times in one colony before I decided that the situation was possibly driven by supercedure instinct. This was first summer operating single deep broods. Takes some getting used to. I was nervous about swarming but they requeened smoothly. I had made small splits from her earlier and she was on her third summer so didnt want to risk her kicking the bucket over the winter.

This past summer was my first for grafting and that makes it a whole lot simpler to make selective splits from your queen of choice without having to wait till you risk losing a swarm. Hindsight: I dont know why I put off learning grafting for so long. Put your good old queens to work in a low risk situation and dont let the ones hang around if they don't excel.
 

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ankklackning: I think we need more context from your book. We need to know the author's goals in her recommendation to requeen each year.

If the goal is to keep a pure Saskatraz or Starline line of bees, then you must requeen every year and must purchase your queens from a Saskatraz/Starline breeder who has controlled mating. Otherwise, the genetics of the Saskatraz line, or Russian line or VSH line, etc. become rapidly diluted with open breeding that will naturally occur within your own apiary.

If, however, the goal is not to maintain the genetics of the specific line of queens, but instead to pursue the theory of local adaptation, then I question why one would ever start with a "foreign" line of queens in the first place.
the temperment of these hiberd lines goes bad real quick when they out cross. thats why they want you to requeen them with an orignal queen every year.. dont belive me try it and see.
 

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So I was listening to an audio book on beekeeping. It was an older book but not super old.

It said something like sasketraz or starliners should be requeened at 1 mark. (I forgot which it was, but it was one of those two.)

I wondered if this is still the case? Or has that idea changed?
There are only two reasons to requeen
1. The Queen is producing a hive that isn’t up to some standard whether relative to your hives or absolute.
2. The hive is being managed with drone rearing to prevent swarming and is requemes every other year.
 

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disagree
There is reasons yearly fall requeening has become the industry standard, and anunaly requeening has been the standard for almost 100 years
 

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Reading the original post the OPer said Starliner or Saskatraz he could not remember which.
Since the book was "older" and Saskatraz bees are relatively recent the book was correct in comments made about Starliner hybrids.
They were available late sixties-70s and had some black German bee in them and did get feisty in a few generations.
Lots of room for discussion but context of the starting point can help.
 

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I can concur John, the saz and the starliner are somewhat different timelines.
I had some of the starliner,, seemed Ok, before that I had what my dad called "Black Italians" Not sure what they were, but they were fiesty. Today in the era of keeping in your shorts with out a Veil we would call them too hot to handle.

GG
 

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The starline was a hybrid created by several inbred lines (4 way cross) , to create hybrid vigor. Much like you don't save and use the seeds from hybrid vegetables as they don't perform the same was true with bees so they needed replacement
 

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disagree
There is reasons yearly fall requeening has become the industry standard, and anunaly requeening has been the standard for almost 100 years
Disagree most commercial beekeepers don’t do drone rearing needed to prevent swarming and have to re-queen annually. It’s actually a wasteful practice. European research has shown this to be the case. https://www.thermosolarhive.com/blog-honey-by-drones/
 
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