[Brett]

I am using the plans on this site to make my hive bodies from and I just noticed the wording "attach metal rabbets on frame rests".
I have heard/seen that there are metal frame rests that raise the frames up 1/8" or so and thus the rabbits need to be deeper when using these.

I don't plan on using them so I am confused as to how deep the rabbits need to be.

Should the tops of the frames be even with the top of the box or have bee space above the frames?

 

[DANIEL QUINCE]

The bee space is in the inner cover. Dadant's bodies tops are made 1/8 or less above frame, just to make sure, I guess, that the cover will sit properly.
I'm sure other people here can give you more info.

 

[Michael Bush]

If you are not going to use rabbets make the frame rests 5/8". That's pretty standard.

 

[Dave W]

There are two types of "metal frame rest". One type raises the frame "ear" ABOUT 1/8" above the RABBET or half-dado created as a "frame rest". Other type of "metal frame rest" is just an "L" shaped angle that has no effect on frame location. Both types as available from Kelley Co.

I use the "raised" type in my brood chambers (deeper cut rabbet) where most proplis problems occur. And no metal at all in honey supers (guess I could add the "angle-type") if/when needed.

 

[carbide]

I cut my rabbets 5/8" deep and use a piece of 20 ga. aluminum bent into the shape of an "L" to rest the frames on. This is roughly .038 thickness and seems to work fine. The aluminum gives me a smooth even surface for the frames to sit on and allows me to easily scrape propolis from the rabbet.

 

[Robert Hawkins]

Excellent question Brett. I'm trying to put the beespace below the frames not above the top bars. The only reason I would want teh bees above is for feeding through the inner cover and that works because of the inner cover. I'm also trying to be interchangeable with mediums and TBHs so that might change what you do.

Hawk

 

[Jim Fischer]

Frame Ear Thicknesses

(Yes, we have a database for such things)

Dadant........0.435 inches
Mann Lake.....0.419
Rossman.......0.415
Brushy Mtn....0.402
Kelley........0.367

So, it all depends on from who you buy
your frames!

 

[Michael Bush]

Wow! I never noticed there was that much difference! I think I have some of all of those, but most are Kelley's or Western Bee Supply.

I make my top bar "ears" 3/8" (0.375") which with a 5/8" rabbet leaves 1/4" beespace at the top with a migratory cover or a flat inner cover. WIth a 3/4" rabbet like I put on the long hives it's a 3/8" beespace.

 

[Brett]

Gosh, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse.
Why split the bee space up between the top and bottom?

Have the space all at the top and the frames even with the bottom of the box. The bottom board will create the space down there and then a flat inner cover can be used and spacers on the other side to allow for ventilation space.

I suppose it depends on how interchangeable I want to be with commercially availble equipment.

And, again, what is the best bee space? 1/4? 5/16? 3/8?

Here is a .pdf of the Beesource deeps and mediums with frames as drawn:

OK. I don't think I can attach it. It shows a .375 between mediums and .500 between deeps.
.34 from the bottom of a deep frame to the box and if you add .75 for the bottom board, those bees have to fly up to the frames. I don't know about that.

[ February 07, 2006, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Brett ]

 

[Michael Bush]

>Gosh, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse.
Why split the bee space up between the top and bottom?

Because:

A) It's already the way it's done.
B) The frames never stick out the bottom so you can stack boxes on something flat.

>Have the space all at the top and the frames even with the bottom of the box.

I have nothing against that as a system. But it's now what is commonly done.

> The bottom board will create the space down there and then a flat inner cover can be used and spacers on the other side to allow for ventilation space.

That's why I put the 3/4" rabbets on my long hives, so I can use flat covers on it. But now that I went to top entrances it makes more sense to stay even with the top and use the top to make the gap for the entrance.

>I suppose it depends on how interchangeable I want to be with commercially availble equipment.

Precisely.

>And, again, what is the best bee space? 1/4? 5/16? 3/8?

Anything from 1/4" to 3/8" works fine, but since workmanship varies and wood warps, I'd vote for 5/16" because it has plus or minus 1/16" to play with.

 

[Dave W]

I made ALL of my woodenware, including frames.

My only "mistake" was making the bottom of frames even w/ bottom of supers. I may shim them up someday when I can do all at same time.

Bee space becomes a problem when "purchasing" excluders (especially wood-bound) and w/ an inner cover w/ a rim.

My Kelley wood-bound excluder was marked "This Side Up" for a reason, to provide proper bee-space ABOVE and BELOW excluder. I "re-framed" my wire grill so that I would have a full 3/8 "rim" above and zero (flat) below (frame top bars are recessed 3/8" in super), boy what a chore!

Inner cover wasnt much of a problem. I have a "flat side" and a 3/8" side. The 3/8" along w/ the 3/8" provided by super, make enough room for a queen cage or thick patty (burr comb hasnt be a problem either).

If I were making supers again, I would make them correct next time, 1/4" at the top, 1/8" at the bottom so I could mix w/ anything I buy.

 

[Brett]

Thanks! I forgot about the excluders. I guess I'll just stick with "standard" sizes except I may make the bottom board with a 3/8 high rim for entrance and bee space. Any problems with that?

 

[Michael Bush]

No problems. 3/4" on the bottom board also works fine as far as beespace. 3/4" seems more popular. 3/8" probably keeps the mice out more than 3/4" but neither will stop them. You'll need some 1/4" hardware cloth or metal mouse gaurds to keep out the mice.