Quick Epi pen question

4674 Views 14 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Bee Bliss, Jul 15, 2010

Buffalolick

Discussion Starter · Jul 15, 2010

I've been stung an above average number of times this week. While I am in the "more stings increases tollerance" camp vs the "each sting is closer to death by anaphlatic shock" camp, I'm thinking I might want to hedge my bet a little. Or atleast keep an Epi pen around for family, friends or neighbors who might get stung and go into shock. Closing in on 20 hives now, and after a some what bad day (made them really really mad and the bees stayed PO'd for darn near 48 hours) realise I may be opening myself up to some risk. Do you keep an Epi on hand? For yourself or others? How long do they stay "fresh"? Do you think it's no big deal and no need to have one? Why? Thanks for the response..Just trying to noodle this one out a bit and I enjoy hearing what other Beeks have to say on things like this

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cmonkey

· #2 · Jul 15, 2010

I got an Epi pen Rx from my doc because I wanted to be on the safe side. Then I went to fill it. $250. Of course, we have an HSA, so we pay out of pocket for everything up to $7K, so YMMV. I still want to have one, at least for kids.

They're good for 12-18 months, I believe. The incidence of true allergy to bees is less than 1%, I think. So the odds are vastly in your favor, but if you have decent medical and want to have one, why not. Be sure you understand how to use it. They're designed to go THROUGH your clothes, and you have to hold it in place for at least 10 seconds, which is a lot longer than you think when you can't breathe.

Andrew Dewey

· #3 · Jul 15, 2010

The pens I have had in the past have all had expiration dates and mine have expired in about a year. I no longer keep one handy.

Keep in mind that the pen is prescribed to one individual and that using it improperly on someone else (admittedly in a life & death situation) MAY leave you open lawsuits/prosecution. Your best bet would be to get yourself certified to use the pen on others. (My now expired certification was part of Wilderness First Aid) At the least you should know and be able to articulate the difference between a local and a systemic reaction.
And probably you should know what a rebound reaction is too.

All that said, would I use the pen on my daughter if she were in Anaphylactic shock and I had one handy? Of course.

Ravenseye

· #4 · Jul 15, 2010

I keep a prescribed set in the house and take it out with me if I have guests. My wife is certified through her day care. I've never had to use it but you never know.

be lote

· #5 · Jul 15, 2010

i got em in the glove box of bout all my trucks . they say not to keep
in heat but aint no way to keep from that. i get em every year. these
came in 2 packs best i can recall.

think good samaritan law will cover you if they goin into shock an
you administer the epi.

honeyman46408

· #6 · Jul 15, 2010

OK same topic but different :s

One of our new keepers who works for a Dr. got her first sting and had a bad reaction, no problem breathing but realy bad swelling and her boss Dr gave her a shot of steriods and told her to keep an inhealier "Primstene Mist" around because it is about the same as an "epi-pen" so this is another "I don`t know but i been told" story but I do have one on hand because my pen has expired.

Primstene is over the counter about 20 bux.

Ravenseye

· #7 · Jul 15, 2010

I also keep liquid benadryl in the house just in case. My Dr. told me that for mild reactions, it's not a bad treatment.

WVaBees

· #8 · Jul 15, 2010

honeyman46408 said:
OK same topic but different :s

One of our new keepers who works for a Dr. got her first sting and had a bad reaction, no problem breathing but realy bad swelling and her boss Dr gave her a shot of steriods and told her to keep an inhealier "Primstene Mist" around because it is about the same as an "epi-pen" so this is another "I don`t know but i been told" story but I do have one on hand because my pen has expired.

Primstene is over the counter about 20 bux.

Both do contain the same stuff, epinephrine, but the dosage and delivery is different. An EpiPen gives you .3g instantly while the inhaler gives up to 250mcg per dose. The EpiPen is near instant delivery and the inhaler can take up to 5 minutes to take effect. Also keep in mind that .3g is equal to 300,000mcg so you will be taking LOTS of hits (1200 of them) off the inhaler to get the same amount of meds...lol

brac

· #9 · Jul 15, 2010

also, it's hard to hit an inhaler when you can't breath.

Batman

· #10 · Jul 15, 2010

be lote said:
think good samaritan law will cover you if they goin into shock an
you administer the epi.

Be nice to think it would, but I dunno. Think there could be a considerable bigger difference than pulling someone from a burning car (though that maybe changing, see the link below) and administering medication. I think I would even be hesitant to offer an epi-pen to them and let them inject themselves. IDK, it's a sue happy world out there, people take you to court just to collect a quick dollar, look at the McDonald's coffee case. One thing to remember though is consent and implied consent. If a person is conscious you should ask for consent, if a person is unconscious it is label as implied consent and you are allowed to help them. I bring this up cause we go thru it every year in training. If a person is choking and awake and you give them the heimlick maneuver (which can crack ribs) they can sue you because they didn't ask for your help and the Good Sam law may not be able to protect you. Once they passout however, consent is implied, help away if you'd like.

Here's a screwed up case, man I hate California:ws
http://www.responsibilityproject.co...aritan_GoodSamaritan_M=broad#fbid=93AEZ_ZRrr4

C2

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knpeterson

· #11 · Jul 15, 2010

I actually called my local pharmacy yesterday to ask these same questions about the epipen.
Expiration: He looked at what he had on hand and they all had expiration dates of aug. and sept. of 2011.
Price: He said they were $81 and that my insurance would pay $50 of that.

He thought it was wise to have one on hand not just for others but for myself as well. I've had some really bad swelling from minor stings and it seems I've never had the same reaction twice. I'm thinking better safe than sorry. Especially since I always work bees alone. He said the liquid Bendryl is a good idea too. I was going to buy some once but couldn't find it b/c I didn't know it was a childrens medicine. He said adults will need about 4 teaspoons. He said if one where to have a bad reaction that the Benadryl can buy you some time.

Fuzzy

· #12 · Jul 15, 2010

The epi pen is needed if someone goes into an anaphalictic shock.
A max dose of liquid Benedryl will most times prevent the allergic response from progressing.

I never go to the bees without a bottle of benedryl, an epi pen, and a phone because I am allergic.

CAHighwind

· #13 · Jul 15, 2010

We keep Epi-Pens, Benadryl (diphenhydramine, generic name and usually cheaper), and loratadine on hand to quell the reactions. Husband also has prednisone tablets available for he is a systemic reactor.

FRAMEshift

· #14 · Jul 15, 2010

The Epipen "window" is supposed to be clear but none of them are. The instructions on the NIH site say that if the window is not clear, the pen is expired. I called the manufacturer and was told that they are normally cloudy. I can only guess that this is to avoid liability. If you sue the manufacturer, will they say you used an expired pen? I reported this to the FDA but no response yet.

I have to disagree on the McDonald's coffee case. I read the details of the case and I agree with the jury.

Bee Bliss

· #15 · Jul 15, 2010

I was told that the epi pen liquid turns a brownish color when expired, but that if that is all you have, to use it anyway as there may be some benefit. It's very important to take Benedryll asap also. Anyone having an allergic reaction should always visit the ER. Benedryll is more important than many realize if there is an allergic reaction. It buys time also!

Allergic symptoms: Difficulty breathing, racing heart, hives unrelated to the sting site. Local swelling (even great) is not an allergic reaction. However, even someone who is not allergic can experience difficulty breathing if they are stung in the throat, mouth, etc. due to swelling.

Someone on this forum suggested taking Benedryll ahead of time if a problem could occur and I like that idea.

Also, some medications (Beta blockers) are known to reduce the effectiveness of epi pens. Be careful.

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