Typically the old queen leaves before the cells hatch. Several days later when they do hatch, they are likely to issue an afterswarm with several of the new virgins on the first good flying day. The new virgin will typically get mated after they find new home. That is why it is important to add a frame of young larvae to a newly hived swarm or they may leave again when the virgin takes her first mating flight. As to what they do if the swarm comes back to the parent hive, they will probably try again with the old queen, and if she is unable, will leave with first virgin to hatch. Cannot say this for sure though.
Questions for the pros
When swarming takes place what is the time line of the old and new queen?
Is the new queen hatched before swarming?
If so...does she mate before or after the swarm?
What happens when a swarm decides to cancel and go back to the old hive for a while? Two queens/one hive?
I have a feral hive in a wooden box with no frames. Quite a tangled mess in there,but they are happy.
I use them as a seed colony and catch the swarms.
This year I caught the swarm to a hive box. Ten minutes later they were back in the mother hive.( My fault,I had two swarms happening at the same time. I didn't complete this one before I went to the other one)
Since then the mother hive entrance activity has slowed down.
It is impossible to open the box without destroying things. What little I can see is lots of bees inside.
Did the returning old queen screw things for the new queen?
Is the new queen hatched before swarming?
If so...does she mate before or after the swarm?
What happens when a swarm decides to cancel and go back to the old hive for a while? Two queens/one hive?
I have a feral hive in a wooden box with no frames. Quite a tangled mess in there,but they are happy.
I use them as a seed colony and catch the swarms.
This year I caught the swarm to a hive box. Ten minutes later they were back in the mother hive.( My fault,I had two swarms happening at the same time. I didn't complete this one before I went to the other one)
Since then the mother hive entrance activity has slowed down.
It is impossible to open the box without destroying things. What little I can see is lots of bees inside.
Did the returning old queen screw things for the new queen?
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
I use feral beehives in trees, (cut down and put near my apairy) as bait boxes. The hive you have that is in a reguar box without frames: May I suggest puttig another box on top of it with Foundation or drawn comb. This may help keep the hive from swaring again. It will also give you a chance to get the hive into more workable conditions.
I don't know.When swarming takes place what is the time line of the old and new queen?
Is the new queen hatched before swarming?
If so...does she mate before or after the swarm?
What happens when a swarm decides to cancel and go back to the old hive for a while? Two queens/one hive?
I have a feral hive in a wooden box with no frames. Quite a tangled mess in there,but they are happy.
I use them as a seed colony and catch the swarms.
This year I caught the swarm to a hive box. Ten minutes later they were back in the mother hive.( My fault,I had two swarms happening at the same time. I didn't complete this one before I went to the other one)
Since then the mother hive entrance activity has slowed down.
It is impossible to open the box without destroying things. What little I can see is lots of bees inside.
Did the returning old queen screw things for the new queen?
>When swarming takes place what is the time line of the old and new queen?
Give or take a few days for bad weather or good weather it goes like this:
Queen cells started (call this day 0)
Larvae in queen cells hatch (call this day 3 1/2)
Queen cells capped (call this day 8)
Old queen leaves (call this day 9)
New queen emerges (call this day 16)
New queen hardens (days 16-20 or so)
New queen orients (days 21-25 or so)
New queen mates (days 26-44 or so)
New queen lays (days 28-44 or so)
> Is the new queen hatched before swarming?
No. Capped.
> If so...does she mate before or after the swarm?
After.
> What happens when a swarm decides to cancel and go back to the old hive for a while?
Hard to say.
>Two queens/one hive?
Doubtful. The new queen is not destined to emerge until about a week after the primary swarm. But if there is enough bad weather things are more unpredictable.
If there are afterswarms there are many queen cells and the bees guard them from the first virgin and confine them so they can't get out. After the first virgin leaves, they will let another out. Sometimes in the confusion of the swarm some of the confined queens get out. The swarm queens are not all the same age. They are released by the bees in the order they were laid.
Details by Huber:
http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#oldqueenleadsprimaryswarm
Give or take a few days for bad weather or good weather it goes like this:
Queen cells started (call this day 0)
Larvae in queen cells hatch (call this day 3 1/2)
Queen cells capped (call this day 8)
Old queen leaves (call this day 9)
New queen emerges (call this day 16)
New queen hardens (days 16-20 or so)
New queen orients (days 21-25 or so)
New queen mates (days 26-44 or so)
New queen lays (days 28-44 or so)
> Is the new queen hatched before swarming?
No. Capped.
> If so...does she mate before or after the swarm?
After.
> What happens when a swarm decides to cancel and go back to the old hive for a while?
Hard to say.
>Two queens/one hive?
Doubtful. The new queen is not destined to emerge until about a week after the primary swarm. But if there is enough bad weather things are more unpredictable.
If there are afterswarms there are many queen cells and the bees guard them from the first virgin and confine them so they can't get out. After the first virgin leaves, they will let another out. Sometimes in the confusion of the swarm some of the confined queens get out. The swarm queens are not all the same age. They are released by the bees in the order they were laid.
Details by Huber:
http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#oldqueenleadsprimaryswarm
Another method, if your interested in getting the bees in a regular hive, is shake em all out and place a box of drawn comb on the bottom board, queen excluder, and then the rest of the hive, after three weeks you will have only honey and pollen up top.
> After the first virgin leaves, they will let another out.
Do you mean they let another out in the same swarm or subsequent afterswarms. Is this how they can have multiple swarms without ending up queenless.
Do you mean they let another out in the same swarm or subsequent afterswarms. Is this how they can have multiple swarms without ending up queenless.
>Do you mean they let another out in the same swarm or subsequent afterswarms.
I think the plan is for the subsequent swarm. Sometimes they get loose.
>Is this how they can have multiple swarms without ending up queenless.
Yes.
I think the plan is for the subsequent swarm. Sometimes they get loose.
>Is this how they can have multiple swarms without ending up queenless.
Yes.
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
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