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A fellow mid-MD beekeeper recently added a medium honey super with undrawn plastic foundation BETWEEN brood chambers. The bees drew it out completely within a week. Now he wants to know what to do with the drawn-out honey super. Is the practice of putting undrawn foundation between brood chambers common? I typically would put it on top and then feed 1:1 to get it drawn out. Any thoughts on why putting the super between brood boxes to get drawn quickly works? Was this just an anomaly?
 

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Wouldn't it get drawn as brood size and not honey size ? I would rather have it between 2 honey supers to get the larger cell size for the honey.
 

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I had a box of dadant depth frames drawn out when placed below the bottom brood box. It saw no other activity such as brooding or nectar. Last fall I placed undrawn mediums below the brood boxes when I pulled off honey supers. They got partially drawn out. I removed them this spring before the queen moved down into them. Used them for honey supers this year.

Would be interesting to try it between two brood boxes.
 

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Wouldn't it get drawn as brood size and not honey size ? I would rather have it between 2 honey supers to get the larger cell size for the honey.
Depends on whether the plastic foundation was drone size or brood size. You could not put a whole box of foundationless frames in without inviting a crosss comb disaster.
 

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There is a little more inducement for them to draw frames between boxes. Some bees in particular do not like crossing into the next box, hence the usual advice to pull up drawn frames into a new box.
 

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by splitting the brood nest they have an impending disaster in their minds, they then make the nest whole again to over come this "issue"

so if some one plopped a room on the end of your house or chopped your house in 1/2 and separated it 10 feet. in which scenario would you "finish" the open space? Faster ?
you messed with the brood nest so they fixed it. Will it work yes, IMO brood nest integrity is more important than getting comb drawn, and there are less invasive methods of drawing comb.
Splittin the nest give a chance for chilled brood.
ideally once the super is started it is moved to the top , or the super position, else you will get brood in it.

IMO if you find the need to "force" the bees, you are on a more dangerous trail, one would need to clearly understand what and , why you are doing this practice.

GG
 

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<SNIP>IMO if you find the need to "force" the bees, you are on a more dangerous trail, one would need to clearly understand what and , why you are doing this practice.

GG
Sounds like good advice: Certainly not something you would do in cooler weather. I think at any time you would want to be prepared for the possibility of emergency cells being started.
 

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If the box was drawn in a week it probably would have been drawn above as well. Take a little longer, I would expect. Drawn frames as starters, from another source, has close to the same effect as between boxes.
If the box remained untouched after a week, down it would go. Not from any master plan, more from my convenience.
 

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Sounds like good advice: Certainly not something you would do in cooler weather. I think at any time you would want to be prepared for the possibility of emergency cells being started.
Can have E cells started, Can chill the brood, can get wonky comb.
1 or 2 combs at a time would be better.
Sometime the frame size is different then you have other issues.
Having some drawn comb is the fix for many things
:)

GG
 

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Here is a link to more experience on splitting the brood boxes. https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?352093-Systematic-Comb-Renewal&highlight=Tim+Rose

Plus a quote from Michael Bush "Most of the "difference" in the Rose Hive is the management. A lot of the management is "by the box". Management "by the box" can work if done correctly and under the right circumstances. It can also fail miserably. It requires a bit of experience and judgement to insert an empty box in the middle of the brood nest like they do. It can work on a "boomer" but will fail miserably on a hive that is not a "boomer".
 

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davemal:

While I will readily admit that I am no expert at this, I did experiment heavily with this approach this season and the colonies without fail drew out the empty box that was inserted between boxes which represented a contiguous broodnest separated into two boxes. While there are many nuances that likely must be considered (and many are already wisely addressed above), Mr. Tim Rowe's 'Rose Hive Method' outlines the fundamental mechanics of the approach:

http://www.rosebeehives.com/uploads/2/3/9/3/2393505/slide_show.pdf

While I still have a whole lot to learn about this, a few things I have taken away from studying the method and experimenting with it:

1. Timing is critical- you want to do it early enough that the colony is still in expansion mode, but late enough that you don't impose undue stress on the broodnest.

2. Colony strength dictates results- while I still don't fully-appreciate the internal mechanics of honeybees, it seems that wax production is at least a function of the number of wax-producing bees and a need for the volume to store either brood or stores.

3. It might have unintended consequences- beyond the already-stated comments about brood stress and accompanying brood mortality or stress-induced disease I am also wondering if an ever-expanding broodnest and no swarm preps (i.e. inability to backfill the nest) might turn some colonies into varroa factories.

All that said, the short-run results were impressive- Tim talks in some of his videos of colonies that will draw-out a box a week during the flow and I was skeptical. That said, I had a colony this year draw out three eight frame medium boxes relatively easily and could have no-doubt done more had I judiciously monitored them weekly during the flow.

If you do elect to try it, I'll be interested to hear how it works for you.

Russ
 

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I have done this with the help of adding queen excluders above and below the super. After a few days I took the opportunity to correct some brood chamber honeybound frames and check the queen situation. Worked fine.
 

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depends on the flow obviously but my hives have been pulling out a box of foundation in a week to 10 days this summer prior to the current dry spell. Thats with the new super of foundation under the queen excluder on top of the top brood deep. I always under super beneath the honey rather than above the honey. Not sure it makes a ton of difference just someone told me to do this year one and ive done it each year since.
 
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