[Kingfisher Apiaries]

I have a question about purvis queens. I know that they are out of business, but was their philosophy to take the best queens that they had, and cross all breeds, to make a superior queen?
If the assumption above is true, then could one sell open mated queens that are "mutts" and make a living out of it? Oh, they would have Hygienic behavior, VSH and good honey production.

Kingfisher

 

[BigDaddyDS]

Absolutely!

Two things point to this being true:

1) Very few queens sold are Instrumentally Inseminated (II).
2) Since queens will avoid mating with related drones, nature automatically provides us with "mutts".

 

[Kingfisher Apiaries]

Thanks BigDaddyDS. What do you guys think? Is there a market for "mutt bees" with the characteristics mentioned before?

Kingfisher

 

[MikeJ]

2) Since queens will avoid mating with related drones, nature automatically provides us with "mutts".

Never heard of number 2, other than the drone spread supposedly helps prevent inbreeding. Are you saying the queen actively attempts to avoid related drones?

What is Mother-Daughter mating if she will actively avoid relative drones?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[BigDaddyDS]

You've got me. What IS mother-daughter mating??

What I'm saying is virgin queens will actively seek out drone congregation areas (DCAs) away from where related drones gather. Drones will gather at DCAs up to 1.5 miles from their parent hive, while a queen will travel up to 4 miles to avoid interbreeding. (Your bees mileage may vary!)

And, no, drone brothers won't (or shouldn't) mate with their own virgin sister. At least not naturally or open mated queens. II queens, though, well that's another story! (And a story where a number of recessive genes can be made dominant! Neat stuff.)

 

[MikeJ]

You've got me. What IS mother-daughter mating??...

That is me confusing the issue.
That kind is done artificially.

I have heard that inbreeding will not effect the brood until it has happened a number of times - true? (not meaning to take over the thread)

Mike

 

[BigDaddyDS]

It depends on the interbreeding and what the end result is, genetically.

For instance, the trait for hygienic behavior is two recessive genes. Whatever the method to obtain the double recessive gene, the results are good (even sought after) and not detrimental to the hive.

On the other hand, if the gene is for something like susceptibility to chalkbrood, it could affect the hive relatively quickly with pretty devastating consequences.

But, once again, nature provides a "safety valve" by the queen mating with 12 to 42 different drones, thereby keeping the accidental interbreeding effects to a minimum.

 

[MikeJ]

I to had thought of a breeding program (or I guess mating program would be more accurate) in which nothing but "feral" stock is used or at least is the majority.

You would intercede to force the queen rearing (being sure it takes place when conditions will render the better quality) part but otherwise you would leave it as natural as possible.

I had been thinking over the propolis issue - wasn't the major reason to reduce propolis because comb honey was a major thing. Propolis makes things sticky but it also is antibacterial/fungal so it would be reasonable to think that a program that reduced this so drastically would reduce the bee's ability to prevent disease in the hive. It just seems if you want bees that will resist the problems so many groan over today that returning the bees to a more natural behaviour would help many of the problems.

That is all opinion of course since unless it is tried we really wouldn't know - and even then it may or may not work with a certain group of bees and fail for another.

Mike