[moussy]

I have been following the threads on condensing hives, insulated hives, northern climate beekeeping for some time now, but most articles really focus on the brood boxes. I guy at my bee club started insulating his woodenware year round and I'd like to give it a go (zone 5 SE Wisconsin). He shared his set up in a talk about winter prep and I forgot to ask him about his supers. What about the honey supers during the warm months? In my mind it feels counterintuitive to insulate the brood box and then let all the boxes above them go without. But will insulating all equipment really bring the returns to justify the added cost or inconvenience?

I was reluctant to take the dive into poly hives, but probably should have considered it closer. I'm only planning 2 hives this spring so not such a great expense if I change my mind and setup in a few years.
Thanks!

 

[JustBees]

Insulated hives are better.

 

[Tigger19687]

I think during the summer you might not need to but I guess it depends on how you're making them.
Or make it simple and just wrap the hives in foam board with straps holding them on.... Same with supers...
Or make a long hive and insulate all of it.

 

[GregB]

If the honey super is to be used year-around on the hive - insulate.
If the honey super is of a quick and temp use only (1-2 months) - optional (extra work/cost is not worth it).

For example, some run poli-hives year around and add dirt-cheap, plywood supers in summer.

 

[clong]

Poly hives are the simplest way to go. You can definitely insulate year around. I don't know experientially whether insulated supers help, but I heard a podcast where an Austrailian beek (> 100F) in the summer saw a 30% increase in honey production with poly hives. Derek Mitchell contends that it is more efficient to insulate.

Beemax poly hives are pretty good, but the bees have chewed new exits on at least one box when I didn't them properly aligned with each other. You can also add foamboard insulation to wood. Mine have held up pretty well, and the wooden boxes themselves are in great shape. All the boxes are insulated, both brood and supers. See the link/thread below for images.

clong 2018-2020 Treatment Free Experience

Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience probably wouldn't hurt to make sure all of the activity with 1803 isn't passive robbing, especially if they are not clustered like the rest. watch to see if the bees are coming and going from the other hives, maybe pull a honey frame or two and...

www.beesource.com

 

[Michael Palmer]

Insulated hives are better.

They are? 😂

 

[Gray Goose]

I do not insulate my supers.
IMO there are better things to spend the time and $$ on.
most weeks the supers Are on it is not cold.
I think it it is too hot, a stick under the lid will do the deed to help cool, less time and expense.

GG

 

[GregB]

Before we get into the same old "insulation is bad" vs. "insulation is good" discussion - ask yourself:

• am I a "commercial-lite" operator?
• am I a pure hobbyist operator?
• what are my ultimate goals?
• what is my definition of success?
• what is my budget (of either time and/or money)?
• what is my zip code (and the attached to it climate)?

Then proceed according to your priorities.
Not because John Smiths says so.

 

[crofter]

Two things accelerate evaporation; warming up the surroundings and increasing air flow. Warm air will hold more moisture before it reaches saturation point; + for insulation.

In really hot climates where bees have to haul water for evaporative cooling the insulation will keep out excess heat and the bees can use the evaporative cooling effect of dehydrating nectar; cuts down on the need to forage for water; another + for insulation.

The bees fanning ability and controlling air flow with their bodies regulate temperature and humidity in brood nest cooperatively with the workers drying down nectar. Independent zone control!

The physics may seem counter intuitive to our so called common sense. I would like to see tightly controlled experiments to answer the question. Theoretical advantage may loose out in a cost/benefit analysis based on local conditions.

 

[Alto Beek]

I have been following the threads on condensing hives, insulated hives, northern climate beekeeping for some time now, but most articles really focus on the brood boxes. I guy at my bee club started insulating his woodenware year round and I'd like to give it a go (zone 5 SE Wisconsin). He shared his set up in a talk about winter prep and I forgot to ask him about his supers. What about the honey supers during the warm months? In my mind it feels counterintuitive to insulate the brood box and then let all the boxes above them go without. But will insulating all equipment really bring the returns to justify the added cost or inconvenience?

I was reluctant to take the dive into poly hives, but probably should have considered it closer. I'm only planning 2 hives this spring so not such a great expense if I change my mind and setup in a few years.
Thanks!

My hives (Apimaye) are insulated, supers too. I take comfort in the fact that insulation mitigates the affects of high temperature swings throughout the seasons - for instance in winter ( Nov - Mar) we are often below freezing and in summer (May- Oct) temperatures often exceed 90 degrees for extended periods. Add in the windy season (Mar to Apr) with 50 - 75 mph winds and I think I have a case for using equipment that will mitigate the extremes.
BTW I only have 3 hives, this is the second winter that they have all survived

 

[jtgoral]

My current setup for the brood nest is a poly deep + a poly medium all year around. BeeMAX and Paradise.

In summer I put wooden medium suppers above the QE. There is 2x2" XPS as a roof to get extra insulation which prevents heat from entering the hive through the roof. I noticed much less bearding during the summer using this setup.
In November the medium must be full of capped stores and it is enough until the spring.

This is in Chicagoland suburb backyard, not a 200+ hives commercial beekeeping.

 

[crofter]

It is interesting to observe the bees on the landing board doing the directional fanning; one side of the entrance heads in and heads out on the other side. Came across a piece that said bees hanging out bearding are doing so, not to remove their body heat from inside, but to clear out the bee space between frames and hive body for easier air circulation.

In my temperate climate, the bees would seldom have to engage in evaporative cooling. Top cover insulation to prevent solar gain would keep them neutral in heating/cooling needs. I would not want to guess what the best practical practice would be in Texas & other southern states. Am seeing some move to insulated hives in Australia though.

As long as conditions were survivable without, I could not envision spending a lot of labor on add on insulation in a commercial operation. Sure as heck would not fit into trucking around the pollination racket bees!

I will keep my 2+" insulation in my telescopic covers all summer and will leave it on the hive bodies till well into June.

 

[COAL REAPER]

in addition to fanning, part of drying down honey is moist hive air condensing on the 'cooler' inner walls of the supers.

 

[Litsinger]

The genesis for much of this discussion recently is the work of Derek Mitchell.

If you haven't already given this one a listen, I strongly recommend it. Whether you come away convinced is an open question but it does give a good overview of the heat transfer mechanisms he has studied within colonies in both temperate and warm climates (i.e. Saudi Arabia):

‎Two Bees in a Podcast: Episode 67: Insulating your Hives in Summer & Sting Management on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Two Bees in a Podcast, Ep Episode 67: Insulating your Hives in Summer & Sting Management - Jul 21, 2021

podcasts.apple.com

 

[moussy]

Poly hives are the simplest way to go. You can definitely insulate year around. I don't know experientially whether insulated supers help, but I heard a podcast where an Austrailian beek (> 100F) in the summer saw a 30% increase in honey production with poly hives. Derek Mitchell contends that it is more efficient to insulate.

Beemax poly hives are pretty good, but the bees have chewed new exits on at least one box when I didn't them properly aligned with each other. You can also add foamboard insulation to wood. Mine have held up pretty well, and the wooden boxes themselves are in great shape. All the boxes are insulated, both brood and supers. See the link/thread below for images.

clong 2018-2020 Treatment Free Experience

Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience probably wouldn't hurt to make sure all of the activity with 1803 isn't passive robbing, especially if they are not clustered like the rest. watch to see if the bees are coming and going from the other hives, maybe pull a honey frame or two and...

www.beesource.com

Thank you! I am trying foil faced polyiso with foil tape to finish the cut edges. I have an Apimaye bottom board and top to experiment with as well. I am still in the taping process and then will paint.

 

[Roland]

By definition, a "Super" is such because it is SUPERIOR to the excluder and the brood chamber. We do not add supers until it is warm and a nectar flow is expected, and are set back one bee space for an upper entrance. Insulation would have very little effect, and would not be cost effective.

Crazy Roland

 

[whix]

By definition, a "Super" is such because it is SUPERIOR to the excluder and the brood chamber.
Crazy Roland

I thought it was called a "super" because you superimpose it on the hive.
To place one thing on top of another.

 

[William Bagwell]

By definition, a "Super" is such because it is SUPERIOR to the excluder and the brood chamber.

I thought it was called a "super" because you superimpose it on the hive.

Currently tied at one vote apiece... Do not know the answer but pretty sure this is not it

 

[moussy]

sorry. I had two replies going. I need to go to bigger screen.

 

[jtgoral]

Currently tied at one vote apiece... Do not know the answer but pretty sure this is not it

The third: Supering - The Apiarist