Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I extract my wooden frame in a manual extractor, even at a medium spin speed, the wax disloges from the frame. I had put the wires beneath the wedges and secured the wedges with 2 staples. The wax is pulling out the wedges on some frames (maybe all). I think if I go slow enough to not cause the wax to rip out, it may not be fast enought to extract the honey.
Does everyone have this problem, or should I not have used staples?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,025 Posts
The staples are too short. Put three more inch or longer staples in each wedge. If you go straight down the staples will have to be 3/4 inch. If they are angled diagonally they can be longer and also better resist being pulled out. I hope you pinned the foundation in the end bar holes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Is there anything better than long staples? I'm not sure how long T50 staples come. I have another super I just put on with the same 2 staples in the wedge bars. Maybe if I add another several staples in each wedge?

No, I'm afraid I didn't. How do you pin the foundation into the end bars, or perhaps there's a picture on line?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
My manual extractor only does one side of the frame at a time it is not a radial. If I try to remove all of the homey from one side of the comb before flipping it will blow combs. I partially extract one side,flip,extract the other side flip back and finish it off. I have also found that most of the honey will come out at a moderate speed if it is warm. Once most of the honey is out then I crank it up yo spin them "dry" as it were. I have extracted many wooden frames without wires, and I have never used support pins. I have used t50 staples to put in wedges, although I used 3, one in each end, and one in the center. If these are new combs, and I'm guessing they are, they can be pretty delicate on the first years extraction. I am always more gentle with new combs. Anyway unless the combs are thrown completely out of the frames, push them back into the frames reasonably close to straight put them back in the super put them on the bees when you have a flow and they'll fix them right up. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,467 Posts
Yeah, I think you just have to go slowly at first til you get most of the weight off & then speed up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,025 Posts
T50 is the width or style. They come in every length from 3/8 to 1.5. If you have the wedge facing in first it will not pull on that side until the comb is almost half empty. It is always best to run tangential extractors half of one side, flip for half then flip back at least for the first year until the comb gains strength. Staples are cheap don't be stingy with two or three.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,532 Posts
How are you placing the frames in the extractor? Is the extractor a radial or tangetal? In a radial the top bars go to the outside. When they are placed in correctly the force would be pulling the foundation from the bottom bar, not from the top bar.
 

·
Vendor
Local feral survivors in eight frame medium boxes.
Joined
·
54,120 Posts
Assuming a tangential, you extract slowly some from one side, flip it and extract most from the other side, then flip it and go faster enough to get all of it out of that side and then decide if it's worth flipping again...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,711 Posts
"There's more to a honeycomb than a vertical, hexagonal grid, however. It actually consists of two layers of cells placed back to back. The cells themselves are tilted upward at an angle of about 13�** from the horizontal-just enough to prevent stored honey from dripping out." >> http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc99/7_24_99/bob2.htm

**Tilted upward about 13 degrees toward the top bar.

That means the bottom bars should be on the leading edge; the left for counterclockwise spinning tang. extractors. On the leading edge; on the right for clockwise spinning tangential extractors.

Not a huge difference I suppose. I have not "experimented" with doing it the opposite way. More important when using radials, that the top bars are toward the outside.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,139 Posts
Switch to plastic foundation, problem solved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all the replies.

I have a tangetal extractor. I'll have to pay attenstion to the top bar/spin direction. I've ordered some support pins, and I'll get longer staple (and use more of them) or tiny screws. I've always used plastic frames before this year. The bees took to the wax foundation so much quicker, I wont go back to plastic.

Do most of you find that you can return your extracted wax foundation frames to the hive and the bees will repair and refill?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,239 Posts
"...Do most of you find that you can return your extracted wax foundation frames to the hive and the bees will repair and refill?..."
thats the whole idea behind using one...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,261 Posts
bobby pins, like women use in their hair make great support pins, cheap too at your local drug store or wal-mart
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok, I'm returning to this thread after some more observations. I used 3 #4 x 1" screws straight through the wedge, wax, and top bar, and it worked like a champ - no more tearing of the wax out of the top bar.

Now the problem is that the wax is tearing and the wires are pulling out of the bottom bar(split bar design). Seems to start ripping in the center along the bottom bar. I put a couple of #4 x 3/4" screws through the split bar and it does close the gap and hold the foundation nice and tight, but it bows the split bars and I fear it may cause the bees to draw the comb to a lesser width towards the bottom of the frame.

So my questions are...

Will the closing of the bottom split bars cause the bees to build out less?

What are some better ideas than screws through the bottom split bars?

Better Bee used to make a nicer wooden frame. The current wedge style top bar frames have a thinner top bar, no deep groove in the top bar for the foundation to fit in, and a thinner wedge that I can't take a #4 screw perpendicular through it. Does any mail order outfit make a nice frame like the old BB?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,668 Posts
What are some better ideas than screws through the bottom split bars?

Quit trying to see how fast you can spin the extractor while the frame still has a lot of honey in it.

Quit trying to get every last bit of honey out of one side of the frame before flipping and extracting the second side.

Make sure your frames of honey are warm before extracting. It's more difficult to extract cold honey.

I have a tangential extractor. I have extracted unwired, deep foundationless frames. I do not have the problems you are having. The problems you are experiencing are not due to your frames. Your problems are caused by the person running the extractor. They are not operating their tangential extractor properly, and they are tearing up their combs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,548 Posts
I extracted this year and only blew out one frame. It happened to be a kelley frame where i had cut the foundation too short(had deep and needed mediums so I cut to fit). I let the kids spin in as they worked it really slow. We also se t the extractor and the frames in the sun in the kitchen so they sun could warm it up. We waited(the anticipation was a pain) but it worked like a charm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
We consiously spun slowly and did extra flipls (4 in total). We also made sure the top bar was on the correct side of the rack for the way we spin (CW). I suppose we could spin even slower, but I don't know if any honey would come out!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,668 Posts
If you are using a tangential extractor, there is no right side to have the top bar. They work fine either way. It is a radial extractor that matters which way the top bar is placed.

When I spin my honey, I start spinning slow and work my way faster. Once I start seeing honey drops hitting the inside of the extractor, I know I am at the correct speed and don't try to spin any faster. Once it appears the rate of honey drops coming out is slowing, I flip the frame and spin the other side out until it is empty. Then I flip the frame back and finish extracting the first side.

Just out of curiousity, how are you uncapping your honey? Are you cutting off caps with a knife, all the way down to the frame? Are you lifting off caps with a fork? Are you just pricking caps with the fork? These things can have an impact on ease of extracting honey.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top