Would like to know folks thoughts/opinions on which is best for foundation. The pop in plastic is easy to use but is it as effective as wax. I am going to be putting togather frames for my spring supers soon and was interested to hear everyones thoughts. I want to do what is best for the bees and their production not necessairly wat is easiest or conveient for me. Thanks
Plastic vs Wax Foundation
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I have used both. They both work well. It will be very interesting to read this thread through the weekend. There are many pros and cons but I like plastice in my supers and wax in my brood chambers. I may test plastic in a hive or two for brood production just to see how they work out.
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I gave up on plastic. It works, but it's still plastic. If they don't build out comb right away, it seems they never build it out unless you re-coat it and that's a lot of work for me. I'll admit to a "anti-plastic" bias in general. I like natural things so I lean towards wood and wax. I have a beek friend who only uses plastic and he loves it. From time to time he needs to get rid of it and he remains concerned with recycling. You can only recycle any plastic a certain number of times so he's torn on that front.
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I use both and cannot tell a difference in how the draw them out in both the brood chamber and supers. I do roll an extra layer of wax on the plastic before I place it in the box. Because of this extra work, in the beginning, the plastic is more work than the wax. But in the long run, the plastic is less maintainence. When I harvest, there is no threat of a "blow out" when running the plastic frames thru the extractor.
My pattern is this: In each super, I place right in the middle, one rack of comb honey wax. The rest are plastic that are usually already drawn out from last year. This way, I get some comb honey from each super and plenty of extracted honey. The best of both worlds.
So, all of this to say again...I cannot tell a difference between plastic and wax in how they draw out. The plastic, TO ME, just seems alot less trouble in the long run.
My pattern is this: In each super, I place right in the middle, one rack of comb honey wax. The rest are plastic that are usually already drawn out from last year. This way, I get some comb honey from each super and plenty of extracted honey. The best of both worlds.
So, all of this to say again...I cannot tell a difference between plastic and wax in how they draw out. The plastic, TO ME, just seems alot less trouble in the long run.
Yeah a lot of different opinion on this subject for sure. I'm a 2nd year beek now. For learning purposes I started with 2 hives, one with wax, one with black plastic. I used the black plastic so I could easily see and learn what the egg and larva looks like. Against the black its very easy to find. With that said...
My Italians did not draw the plastic as well as the wax, and they always seemed slower to build up and not as healthy. Now I'm not blaming that on the foundation, I'm just stating the difference. Needless to say the ones on the plastic did not have as much stores and I lost them right after Christmas. Some my fault, some the bees fault. They still had stores but couldn't make it to them. That's my experience so far. I can see the great benefits to using them in supers if you use extractors and for cleaning a frame up purposes. My reasoning was just trial and error experiment for my first year. I would like to do some foundationless in the near future. I hear a lot of good out of that.
My Italians did not draw the plastic as well as the wax, and they always seemed slower to build up and not as healthy. Now I'm not blaming that on the foundation, I'm just stating the difference. Needless to say the ones on the plastic did not have as much stores and I lost them right after Christmas. Some my fault, some the bees fault. They still had stores but couldn't make it to them. That's my experience so far. I can see the great benefits to using them in supers if you use extractors and for cleaning a frame up purposes. My reasoning was just trial and error experiment for my first year. I would like to do some foundationless in the near future. I hear a lot of good out of that.
I use the Mann Lake 120 medium small cell plastic frames and really like them. I wax them before using and the bees draw them out great and because of the small cell stamp on the frame they draw out small cell, usually but not always, and I use those in the brood boxes. My only dissatisfaction is that they don't fit in my extractor as well as wooden for some reason and I often have to flip them around with the top bar facing toward the center to fully extract the honey. I don't know the reason for this but thats how it is. Other than that, I love the mediums, especially for the brood.
We use black plastic foundation with wood frames in brood boxes and this year ar using one piece white plastic frames in the supers. Has worked good for us so far.
I will second the recomendation to stay away from duragilt. Bought a 100 sheets a couple of years ago and still have a lot thats not drawn or drawn messed up.
johnny
I will second the recomendation to stay away from duragilt. Bought a 100 sheets a couple of years ago and still have a lot thats not drawn or drawn messed up.
johnny
My two favorite solutions are foundationless, and PF120s from Mann Lake. The PF120s are 4.95mm cell size, well accepted, cheap and I don't have to assemble them. I can't buy a frame for less. Foundationless, I just buy either the new Walter T. Kelley foundationless frames or wedge top frames and turn the wedge sideways...
I have used both also. I find that the plastic is easier to maintain. Soak them in Red Devil lye for a few minutes and they come out like new. Just heat and dip. Changing out the wax foundation is time consuming. You have to boil the frames, let them dry, remove the wedge, replace the foundation. Resecure the wedge. Hive beetles give them Hell also. Very little damage with the plasticell foundation. I use the wood frames and thin wax foundation in my small honey supers. I like to cut comb out of the frame. Also, on the wax and wood, I find that the bees take to it faster. I have to spray my black plastic foundation with sugar water before putting them in the super. I lost two hives this winter. One had wood and wax and the other had black plastic. In the wood and wax, all of the bees were still in the hive but dead. In the plastic, it was over run with wax moths. Not a single bee inside. It is my guess, MY GUESS, that the plastic foundation is warmer in the winter. Not sure. You will have to experiment for yourself and decide what to use.
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