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Pete
Thanks for the links. I had not seen randy's october update yet. The caps for sale seem pretty high at $28 buck per hive.
I skimed through the vidio cause sound on my computer sucks.
Thanks for posting.
gww
 

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Baybee
"Problem #1" and "Problem #2" are only problems when one believes the strips have to be taken out after certain time.
"Problem #3" is made up.
First let me say sorry for typing babybee instead of baybee, it was inadvertant and just something my mind does to me sometimes.

To your quote. You ask questions like you don't know something but when an answer is given you know it all and so you should be trying to explain it to me rather then me explain it to you.

Problim three is not made up and he says he does not want to keep olaxic on the hive all the time, he does not say what you want to see.

His whole position was it would be nice if the bees did the work. It does not matter if you think it is easy enough to do the work yourself, that does not make it not easier if the bees remove it. You are correct though, if you don't mind if they stay in your hive forever then the strips are not harder as long as they don't get in the way while pulling frames for inspection.

If you know more then me which is quite possible then you should put it out there. My queation is, is it a set up question when you ask about placing the strips killing the bees, is it because you don't know or because you want to prove you do? You ask if it kills them mechanically or due to wetness of the acid. Are you asking for pure reasons of really wanting to know?
Cheers
gww
 

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Baybee
...Are you asking for pure reasons of really wanting to know?
Cheers
gww
Thanks, gww! Yes, I want to try the OA/glycerin strips but at this point missing two important details of the procedure. Switching from OAV because, on the one hand, vaporization doesn't really work on my hives because in our climate there is always brood; on the other hand, I want to keep the supers on all the time.

I want to find a treatment that is easy on the bees, allows to keep supers on, has no temperature restrictions, and, oh, yes, effectively lowers infestation levels. OAV, MAQS, Apivar are out at this time.
 

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Do you care about it being against the law right now to treat with anything but hopgaurd and mqas with the supers on? If it was all that would save my bees, it would not worry me too much that it is illegal but it is.

There was a thread that was not that long ago about cardboard to use and I though it was mentioned that dry wall shims that you could get at the box stores would maby work.

If I was in your shoes and going to do it regaurdless of the law, there are enough links on this thread to do it.

As far as the cardboard killing the queen, my guess is that mechanical would be more a worry then too much olaxic and glyseron (can't spell). I know on the test of the hopguard that bees rolled in the gooey substance on the tabs killed bees. It was suggested on them to shake the frames before aplying for that reason. I believe that the olaxic and glyseran would be drier. This is only a guess. To be compleetly safe you could shake the bees off the frame. I probly wouldn't till I killed a queen once but that is just me.

In the end, I usually look at what others are doing that like what they are doing and then decide if I want to try it.
Good luck
gww
 

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Aluen CAP (OA/glycerin strips) is a commercial product. The 2015 Maggie paper says this kind of treatment after 42 days leaves no OA residue in honey or wax.

I guess sometimes "illegal" means "forbidden by law" and sometimes "not recognized by law". I suppose these are different things.
 

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Eduardo, do you mean that queen can be killed by a cardboard strip through mechanical rolling/squashing/cutting with sharp edges? Or by exposure to/drowning in the chemical mixture?

They say in the protocol that cardboard strips are hung for a day or so after saturation so that at the time of application there is no dripping glycerin.
My experience is with cardboard strips with glycerin and amitraz. In this situation I have seen bees being killed at the time of insertion I believe that mainly due to over exposure to glycerin.

R. Oliver says more or less the same about Hopguard: "You need to insert the Hopguard strips into the broodnest for best efficacy. But if you inadvertently hit a queen when you insert a strip, she’ll likely be killed. So we take the time to shake the bees off the frame before applying each strip. This is not a problem for those with only a few hives, but would add considerable labor expense to a commercial operation." source: http://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-hopguard-ii-as-a-late-summer-mite-treatment/

I do not know if with the strips of glycerin and OA this possibility is similar.
 

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Baybee
I guess sometimes "illegal" means "forbidden by law" and sometimes "not recognized by law". I suppose these are different things.
I have seen several studies besides thiers that says the same and based on that, I look at the law like you do.

Cheers
gww
 

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Aluen CAP (OA/glycerin strips) is a commercial product. The 2015 Maggie paper says this kind of treatment after 42 days leaves no OA residue in honey or wax.

I guess sometimes "illegal" means "forbidden by law" and sometimes "not recognized by law". I suppose these are different things.
Well ... it depends what country we are talking about. Aluen CAP is an Argentina product, and not available in the USA. In the USA, there are only 2 forms of "oxalic acid as a varroa pesticide" that are legal for use in beehives. Those 2 forms are OAV (oxalic acid vaporization) or OAD (the dribble / spray mixture of sugar syrup and oxalic acid). Any other form of oxalic acid applied as a varroa control is "forbidden by law".

I well understand that people often don't want to acknowledge that, but it is true.

Randy's experimentation with drywall shims and/or using glycerin as a carrier is not a currently EPA permitted/approved use of oxalic acid as a varroa pesticide. And if it is not EPA registered, and does not come in a container with an EPA approved label and directions, then it is illegal to use that substance as a pesticide.*

That is Federal law, based on enabling legislation for the EPA (FIFRA). Of course, there are plenty of violations ...



* Randy Oliver has an Experimental Use Permit to do what he is doing - more on that here:
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/

.
 

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Eduardo
I looked up your plant hardieness zone so I could keep a little perspective on your climate. If I got it correct we are talking about zone 9 or zone 10.

Thank you for posting the info. I went to your link of your blog that you have on all your post. A lot of stuff on there.
Cheers
gww
My plant hardiness zone is 9a.

Yes gww lot of stuff on my blog.:)

I translate a brief excerpt about my estimates.

"We are now in a position to calculate the rate of infestation in adult bees by the varroa mite in the colonies that present an approximate population dynamics that I presented.

end of April = 307 varroas for 23 000 bees; infestation of 0.2%;
end of May = 614 varroas to 45 000 bees; infestation of 0.2%;
end of June = 1228 varroas to 39 000 bees; infestation of 0.47%
end of July = 2456 varroas to 33 000 bees; infestation of 1.12%
end of August = 4912 varroas for 27 000 bees; infestation of 2.72%
end of September = 9824 varroas to 21 000 bees, 7% infestation."

It should not be too far from the reality because it is from them that I have established and fine-tuned my calendar of treatments that have been very effective in the last two years. This fall I've lost some hives due to problems with queens, but none due to varroa.
 

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Eduardo
This fall I've lost some hives due to problems with queens, but none due to varroa.
I remamber the thread where you were asking the question on calander treatments. It was in my mind then that to have that many hives you would have to work out some kind of cooky cutter plan to work with.

It sounds like it is going great. That sure is a heck of a build up of mites in a short period. Thanks for posting the extra.
gww
 

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Well ... And if it is not EPA registered, and does not come in a container with an EPA approved label and directions, then it is illegal to use that substance as a pesticide.

.
:) Is it legal to eat honey produced in Argentina using, according to EPA, an illegal form of "oxalic acid as a Varroa pesticide", even if this honey is sold by tons in "wholesale centers" near you?

I believe if I reproduced the materials, concentrations, and application methods of the well-tested Argentinian product, I'd get very close to "not recognized by law". While tweaking the concentrations, changing the delivery medium (from the tested cardboard to something else), and misplacing the treatment in hives is not far from "forbidden by law".
 
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