Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner
21 - 40 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Thanks for the link! Found no details of the cardboard method though. I am looking for the details (cardboard, application) of the original (and working) technique developed in Argentina years ago.
The part I was referring to is where he is talking about (among other aspects) laying the cardboard strips across the the top rather than inserting them and what type of cardboard he used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
Thanks for the link! Found no details of the cardboard method though. I am looking for the details (cardboard, application) of the original (and working) technique developed in Argentina years ago.
A long thread, but all in there....http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...in-Shop-Towels-a-promising-stopgap-flyswatter

From the Argentine forum....http://teca.fao.org/discussion/varroa-jacobsoni-natural-methods-fight-it?page=1

The formulation.....https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-015-0405-7#Tab3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
:) :thumbsup:

But are there any details on these specific questions:

(A) if any cardboard of 1.5-2 mm thickness would do or there is a specific type? In Argentina, they sell the dry cardboard strips in beekeeping stores -- people don't cut them from egg cartons for some reason.

(B) if it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames? Or lifting frames is required?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
:) :thumbsup:

But are there any details on these specific questions:

(A) if any cardboard of 1.5-2 mm thickness would do or there is a specific type? In Argentina, they sell the dry cardboard strips in beekeeping stores -- people don't cut them from egg cartons for some reason.

(B) if it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames? Or lifting frames is required?
They sell the same type of cardboard here as well, same type of absorbant material that beer mats are made of.
The matrix of these strips is composed of cellulose (45 cm × 3 cm × 1.5 mm)
Each strip was placed astride on frames 2, 4, 6, and 8 of the brood chamber (Figure 1)
Look at the pictures....no need to remove frames or force anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
(B) if it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames? Or lifting frames is required?
I do not know the exact answer to this question. However I know from personal experience that glycerin and amitraz strips kill some bees when they are bathed by glycerin during the insertion process. I do not wish the same thing to happen to the queen.

I understand the pertinence of the baybee question. If I ever use again glycerin-soaked strips I will lift the frames before inserting the strips.

If it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames I can not understand the rationale for so much research by Randy Oliver with the towels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
If it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames I can not understand the rationale for so much research by Randy Oliver with the towels.
I can't either. Sounds like he believes that after thirty years of no resistance to OA there is still a chance for Varroa to develop it, hence one can't expose mites to OA/glycerin mixture for longer than several weeks.

No amitraz will be involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,606 Posts
Eduardo
If it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames I can not understand the rationale for so much research by Randy Oliver with the towels.
Randy explains his rational very well. If you use the strips you at some point have to go back in and take them out. When you take them out, besides the extra labor, you have an enviromental hazardous waste product that you have to dispose of. If the towels work, the bees carry them out for you saving labor and they are disperced into the enviroment in a non-harmful manner.

It seems like a pretty good reason to me for a guy that has hundreds to thousands of hives.
Cheers
gww
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,606 Posts
Babybee
Have you read this?
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/beyond-taktic/
For example
Three ProblemsProblem #1—the labor involved: When I excitedly showed the results to my son Eric, he rained on my parade with some simple arithmetic: 4 strips per box, 8 strips per hive, 1500 hives to treat = 12,000 strips to make, insert one at a time, then pry out one at a time for disposal (wearing nitrile gloves at every step). This treatment wasn’t going to fly, not at our labor costs.
Problem #2—disposal: We’d need to deal with 12,000 strips of hazardous waste. The spent strips still contain enough acid that you can’t be casual with them–you don’t want to touch them with your bare hands or hive tool, nor toss them into the back of the truck, since they’d corrode the bed.
Problem #3—pest resistance management: I don’t want to apply this (or any) treatment continuously, since I’d then be selecting for oxalic-resistant mites. I want an application method that the bees will remove by themselves after 30 days.
gww
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
It seems like a pretty good reason to me for a guy that has hundreds to thousands of hives.
Hi gww!
I withdraw the strips of acaricides from a little more than 600 hives without great labor cost. I usually associate this task with other tasks in the apiary. Regarding the strips used, I deliver them to my beekeepers' association, which then takes them to a national company dedicated to the recycling of pharmaceuticals.

I think that the gain of the towels when compared to the strips is more at the time of their placement and not so much at the time of their withdrawal. The placement of strips with glycerin between frames requires great care not to kill the queen. The placement of towels on the top of the frames seems to me much quicker and less risky as regards the possibility of killing the queen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,606 Posts
Eduardo
Are you happy with the results you are getting when using the strips? I remember you asking a question of being able to treat on a calander schedual. Is this how you handle your use of the strips IE: have a certain date that you use them? I would be very interested in a report from you and your thoughts on your experiances so far.
Thanks
gww
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,606 Posts
Beekuk
I had thought in randy's test that on some of the harder to remove stuff that the bees had started to propolize over it. I did not go back and read it for sure incase I am mixeing something up. I wander how consistant the result of what you quoted from the study are of them removing it all in two months? If they do then the only differrance would be an extra month of exposure. If they don't do it consistantly and glue some down, it could be a problim. Maby Eduardo might have an answer to that also?
Thanks for any responce to my questions.

I do say even if it doesn't add much extra labor that the towels if their effectiveness is simmular still would be easier all around and gains are made by small incraments. Storing and taking to a recycle may not seem like much to some but I live way out in the boonies and a trip anywhere is going to take three hours for me. Even buying packages, the closest parking lot being delivered to was an hour away. I didn't buy any packages due to that.

The shop towels if they ever get them working with the right mixture will be the easiest to deal with. Till then the strips probly are best.
Cheers
gww
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,606 Posts
Eduardo
gww I treat with synthetic acaricides, especially Apivar strips. If you remain interested I can indicate some of the guidelines I follow.
I am not treating right now but am not a real purist and have no ideal of what I will be doing as I keep keeping bees in the future. I am a collector of things that people think are working and I would always like to know what you are doing in case I like it and want to try it too. I don't want to waste your time or take this thread too far away from what is being discussed but yes, I would love to know how you are doing it. I don't want to be considered as messing up this topic and so don't know for sure what is the right way for you to tell me if you feel like typing that much but I am curious how you are handling 600 hives.
Cheers
gww
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
Beekuk
I had thought in randy's test that on some of the harder to remove stuff that the bees had started to propolize over it.
This is Randys latest report, if you scroll down a ways you can see and read about how he is placing the strips on top as well...

American Bee Journal, October 2017

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-2/

Also the commercial product at Apimondia Oct 2017....

Apimondia Istanbul - Aluen Cap - New Oxalic Acid Varroa Treatment..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUBmc1l5Rys

For sale here...
https://www.apicultodo.com/medicamentos/varroasis/tiras-aluen-cap-x-60-u-15-dosis/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
I don't want to waste your time or take this thread too far away from what is being discussed but yes, I would love to know how you are doing it.
(My apologises to OP)

gww my major guidelines are:
I treat twice a year. For two years I treat with Apivar and then I change once to another active principle to avoid the emergence of resistances.

I leave the Apivar strips for 10-12 weeks. Start the first treatment of the year in early February. I shoot these strips in mid / late April.

After 3 months end of July / beginning of August I place the second treatment and let it stay again 10 to 12 weeks.

If my accounts are correct (on my blog I made it public) about the bee population progression and progression of the mite rate with this calendar I can prevent the rate of varroa infestation rising above 3%, my desired threshold between treatments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
The placement of strips with glycerin between frames requires great care not to kill the queen.
Eduardo, do you mean that queen can be killed by a cardboard strip through mechanical rolling/squashing/cutting with sharp edges? Or by exposure to/drowning in the chemical mixture?

They say in the protocol that cardboard strips are hung for a day or so after saturation so that at the time of application there is no dripping glycerin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,606 Posts
Eduardo
I looked up your plant hardieness zone so I could keep a little perspective on your climate. If I got it correct we are talking about zone 9 or zone 10.

Thank you for posting the info. I went to your link of your blog that you have on all your post. A lot of stuff on there.
Cheers
gww
 
21 - 40 of 55 Posts
Top