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Sorry - Randy has posted on his website this is not a legal treatment yet and is a work in process. I did not see that in the article.
 

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Quite frankly I do not care whether it is legal or not, the most important thing to consider is if it is a viable mite treatment. From tests I have carried out and posts that I have read it is not a treatment that will take out the mites on a mite ridden colony. It would appear to work best on colonies with low mite numbers and to a certain extent stop the normal build up of mites. This means you still have to monitor your colonies in case of a sudden influx of mites from failing colonies. So at the end of the day it is not the answer to the mite question but appears as another tool in the ongoing fight.
Johno
 

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What makes Oxalic acid soaked into paper towels "illegal" but drenching them with Oxalic acid or heating it into a death vapor ok?
 

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I think we need to "stay tuned" on this one. Randy is doing a lot of testing on the West Coast and Auburn University and the University of Georgia have recently completed some testing this season in the humid Southeast. The preliminary results have been a bit of a mixed bag. I have not seen final results published yet, but have been looking. Randy has been working with the EPA and is attempting to get the shop-towel application approved with honey supers in place. I attended a seminar in August with Jennifer Barry of the U of Georgia who said they were still compiling data at that time. Has anybody seen a publication of the final results?
 

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The legality of treatments are the province of some corrupt government agencies, the OA dribble and OAV treatments are not legal unless the OA is purchased from a certain supplier that has a employment prevention agency label. However as the USA is now a country where the rule of law is applied selectively why bother with the law.
Johno
 

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or you know maybe they just want to make sure they are not poisening anybody. But whatever fits in your world view i guess...
 

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Guvmint. :lookout:
Actually, it's about efficacy, wether or not it actually does the job, and residues left in a food destined for the human food consumption chain. I spoke with Randy about this treatment method at a conference just last week. His comment, not ready for prime time yet. In some cases, effective, some cases ineffective, and in one case, fatal for the bees under test in a lab test. They are working on refining this delivery method to get the efficacy to a suitable point, but it's not there yet. He was very clear during a presentation, this is not yet an approved method for delivering a pesticide (OA is a pesticide) and he is working via an experimental use certificate while they refine the process to a point it does become widely useable.

The goal, an approved method of application that can be used with honey supers in place. Vaporization is an approved application method, and got that way based on the data from Medhat at the Alberta agriculture department. But Medhat did not do testing of honey residues, it was based on the assumption that OA is a treatment to be used during times when colonies are broodless, ie in the fall / winter when no honey supers are in place. So, the approval specifically includes drip and vaporization as application methods, and specifically excludes applications when honey supers are on.

I know a lot of folks seem to think it's all some sort of government conspiracy to make life miserable, and you are free to think so if it makes you happy. Reality is a bit different tho. OA does occur naturally, and if you eat around a thousand pounds of rhubarb in an hour, you will be exposed to roughly the same concentration of OA that we pour into a beehive during a treatment. In this high concentration, it is a poison, demonstrated by the death of varroa mites. As Medhat is fond of saying in his presentations, the organics are 'dumb chemicals for smart beekeepers', but if you apply the dosage to high, they will kill bees just as well as varroa mites, so you need to be smart about applying them. OA has a wider tolerance than formic, but will reach the same result. The approval processes are about a risk/reward balance. Every time you pour a poison into a hive, you are pouring a poison into the environment. There is a cost to the environment in this process, and a risk to contaminating a food product in production. The approval process is about quantifying the risks, against the reward, in this case dead mites, and finding ways to achieve a balance, ie, maximum reward measured in terms of dead mites, with acceptable risk in terms of how much poison is poured into the environment and what risk is introduced into the food supply. There are sound reasons, with measured results for the how and why of the processes that get approved, vs those that aren't.

The one thing that never ceases to amaze me with beekeepers, if the discussion is about control of miticides etc, it's always 'some form of government conspiracy', yet if the discussion turns to neonics, suddenly its a case of 'they gotta all be banned'. Reality is, they are one and the same, both are insecticides that target specific groups of insects. But beekeepers in general seem to be of the mindset, an insecticide that targets varroa mites should be totally unrestricted, but something that targets other insects should be banned totally. Kind of reminds me of an old saying about pots and kettles.
 

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well put
 

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I'll try to pull this back to the original issue - mite treatment...

One very interesting thing in the article that gets lost is how effective the OA/Glycerin soaked cardboard strips were. They were the most effective according to the testing. Mr. Oliver was very pleased with the results, but decided the labor involved and having to dispose of the used strips AT THE SCALE HE IS BEEKEEPING made them impractical. See pages 11-13.

I'm wondering though - for a hobby beekeeper - if the soaked strips might be feasible?

Regards,
Wally
 

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" OA does occur naturally, and if you eat around a thousand pounds of rhubarb in an hour, you will be exposed to roughly the same concentration of OA that we pour into a beehive during a treatment."

grozzie, That seems fantastic to me. I thought we were using somewhat less than what was in a rhubarb pie.
 

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I tried the OA/cardboard strips using the Argentine formula. I sugar shook a hive giving me 25 mites. So I put four 15 inch strips folded over the bars and let them sit for six weeks. They chewed the cardboard some but when I checked for mites again in that hive it only came up with one. So it might be worth it for the hobbyist, still not a real big hassle to me. The one thing that I did notice is that wear the cardboard was near the comb the queen did not lay so I got strips of no brood. Just my one-time observation so far but my other hives are now showing low mite counts.
 

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Ran them for two rounds in the spring on 50plus hives in Georgia. Did not get adequate control. Back to the drawing board.
 

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grozzie2
"I know a lot of folks seem to think it's all some sort of government conspiracy to make life miserable, and you are free to think so if it makes you happy. Reality is a bit different tho."

Maybe where you live, but not necessarily here in the states. Oh, and it certainly doesn't make me happy.
Big Government is controlled by By Big Business it is a fact of life. I am not going to change it and neither are you. For example, there is no question that government policies such as ethanol and other fuel mixes cause fuel prices to rise while the jury is still out on a cost/effectiveness analysis the public does not believe ethanol is helpful to them. Big Ag (corn) loves ethanol, lots of luck getting that out of our fuel.
Big pharmacy controls the prices on drugs and loves the FDA which by increasing the cost of studies and years to bring a drug to market keeps the little guys out of the market. There will be no bulk discount buying for Medicare.
OA has been used successfully by European beekeepers for 20++ years and to my knowledge, they haven't killed anyone or caused any serious harm. EVERY protocol for the use of OA for 20++ years calls for the honey supers to be off. So if they just mandate that honey supers must be off the hive what do they care how many grams are used and in what manner. If you want to kill your queen or your bees by applying any substance, including sugar, wintergreen etc, etc why should the government be involved? As long as the honey supers are off it is good to go.
It is not a government conspiracy, and that is your word, not mine, my word is it is government stupidity.
And, no it doesn't make me happy.
 

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I would like to try OA/glycerin cardboard strips to see if it is easier and more effective than OAV in keeping the mites in check. Not clear on the following: What kind of cardboard could be used for the strips: drywall shims, poster board, chipboard? 1.5-2 mm thick cardboard is suggested, which is about 1/16"-5/64".

Do I have to pull the frames out of the hive to fold the strips around or strips can be just pushed down?

Thanks in advance, h.
 

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I would like to try OA/glycerin cardboard strips to see if it is easier and more effective than OAV in keeping the mites in check. Not clear on the following: What kind of cardboard could be used for the strips: drywall shims, poster board, chipboard? 1.5-2 mm thick cardboard is suggested, which is about 1/16"-5/64".

Do I have to pull the frames out of the hive to fold the strips around or strips can be just pushed down?

Thanks in advance, h.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-2/

This is Randy Oliver's October 2017 update. Of particular interest to you is a section describing the cardboard method. I have not tried the cardboard method myself but have done the shop towel method late part of September with satisfying results. I say satisfying because I just completed a OAV application and upon checking the sticky board the last couple of days I'm seeing a very low mite count so it's nothing scientific mind you. Today is day 3 and I understand this should be the biggest "drop" day so we'll see. I'll do another OAV treatment in a few days as there were still a little capped brood.
 

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Of particular interest to you is a section describing the cardboard method.
Thanks for the link! Found no details of the cardboard method though. I am looking for the details (cardboard, application) of the original (and working) technique developed in Argentina years ago.
 
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