Over sized boxes?

1691 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by AHudd, Mar 18, 2021

Akovia

Discussion Starter · Mar 18, 2021

I ordered a few new deeps and frames from a new supplier. They are so big that 11 frames almost fit. Seems like too much bee space. None of my other boxes have this kind of space. I have reached out to the supplier (a national chain) and have not heard a thing. Will this much extra space cause issues?

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RayMarler

· #2 · Mar 18, 2021

I think they do that so that you can use an inside the box frame feeder and only need to pull one frame for it to fit in. I don't like it myself, as I don't use inner frame feeders, and it causes the bees to draw the wax out further on the 2 outer frames (I push all frames in to the center, so equal space on the two outsides). With the 2 outside frames over drawn on one side, I find it difficult to be able to move them to any other position in the hive that is not an outside frame position. i'd much rather have the boxes all with proper bee space. My only easy fix that I can come up with is to make follower boards to slip in to take up the space, but that adds weight and besides, I'm just to lazy to do the extra work.

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odfrank

· #3 · Mar 18, 2021

Akovia said:
I ordered a few new deeps and frames from a new supplier. They are so big that 11 frames almost fit. Seems like too much bee space. None of my other boxes have this kind of space. I have reached out to the supplier (a national chain) and have not heard a thing. Will this much extra space cause issues? View attachment 62608 View attachment 62608

They should be 16 1/4" wide outside.

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Akovia

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 18, 2021

RayMarler said:
I think they do that so that you can use an inside the box frame feeder and only need to pull one frame for it to fit in. I don't like it myself, as I don't use inner frame feeders, and it causes the bees to draw the wax out further on the 2 outer frames (I push all frames in to the center, so equal space on the two outsides). With the 2 outside frames over drawn on one side, I find it difficult to be able to move them to any other position in the hive that is not an outside frame position. i'd much rather have the boxes all with proper bee space. My only easy fix that I can come up with is to make follower boards to slip in to take up the space, but that adds weight and besides, I'm just to lazy to do the extra work.

I guess it would have been helpful if the supplier had made that distinction. I also don’t use box frame feeders but I have some around. Dang.

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Akovia

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 18, 2021

odfrank said:
They should be 16 1/4" wide outside.

Wouldn’t that dimension depend on the dimension of the material used? 5/8 as opposed to 3/4?

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odfrank

· #6 · Mar 18, 2021

Akovia said:
Wouldn’t that dimension depend on the dimension of the material used? 5/8 as opposed to 3/4?

Standard material is 3/4" thick.

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Murdock

· #7 · Mar 18, 2021

It really doesn't matter about OD, the ID should be the standard. I made boxes out of 40 year old re-purposed cedar that was 5/4. After clean up it was closer to 1 inch. If it hangs over a little I / the bees don't care... it's like a tree cavity. My boxes have slop too but I re-space all the frames. It gives me a little more room to get the first frame out at inspection time. Some people use 7 honey frames in an 8 frame super to get more honey while handling less frames...it's just what works for you.

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crofter

· #8 · Mar 18, 2021 (Edited)

Akovia said:
Wouldn’t that dimension depend on the dimension of the material used? 5/8 as opposed to 3/4?

Outside dimension should be standard in width 16 1/4"; inside dimension must be standard the long way so that frame rests are correct for standard 19" Langstroth frame dimensions..19 1/8" inside the vertical of the ledge.

Made in Canada boxes are standard 7/8" thick; Us may be 3/4". Boxes stack better if outside widths are standard. An outside follower board is not a critical fit.
Those pristine new frames will soon get some propolis deposits on the sidebars and unless you are anal about scraping them will start to take up the space. I would rather anyday deal with a bit of extra than too tight.

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Gray Goose

· #9 · Mar 18, 2021

they look fine
center the frames and leave 1/2 the spce on each side.
do not space the frames a little each.
in 5 inspections they will fill most of the space.

or make a thin 5/8 filler/divider frame.

GG

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Tumbleweed

· #10 · Mar 18, 2021

Yup looks perfect, make one of these

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Akovia

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 18, 2021

ID is the critical measurement. It seems to me that if there is too much bee space they will draw out the frames too much. That would make the brood cells too big, wouldn’t it?

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crofter

· #12 · Mar 18, 2021

Akovia said:
ID is the critical measurement. It seems to me that if there is too much bee space they will draw out the frames too much. That would make the brood cells too big, wouldn’t it?

No, no and no! Read post #8. What is critical is box height and frame rest dimensions so frames dont fall off the rests or get jambed in. Brood cells do not get elongated if frames are spaced wider. Honey storage frames will be built out to take advantage of wider spaces but cell length there is irrelevant.

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Akovia

Discussion Starter · #13 · Mar 18, 2021

crofter said:
No, no and no! Read post #8. What is critical is box height and frame rest dimensions so frames dont fall off the rests or get jambed in. Brood cells do not get elongated if frames are spaced wider. Honey storage frames will be built out to take advantage of wider spaces but cell length there is irrelevant.

“ Brood cells do not get elongated if frames are spaced wider”. This was my biggest concern. Thank you for the clarity. Box height and frame rests are fine.

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AHudd

· #14 · Mar 18, 2021

Akovia said:
“ Brood cells do not get elongated if frames are spaced wider”. This was my biggest concern. Thank you for the clarity. Box height and frame rests are fine.

They will likely build the honey band wider above the brood on the brood frames, but not the brood cells. At least, mine do.

Alex

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Over sized boxes?

Akovia

RayMarler

odfrank

Akovia

Akovia

odfrank

Murdock

crofter

Gray Goose

Tumbleweed

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